Problem with Herefords

[dun]

I figure this will stir up another unpleasant pot.
The only problem we've had with Herefords is the YG. We get back carcass data on all of our calves andthe only YG 3s we consistantly get are the Hereford sired calves out of Red Angus cows. It just seems that in order to get the REA and marbelingthat we need for the QG we get dinged on the YG.
I also think it's partially a feed lot managment problem nearly as much as genetics.

That being said, I sure ain;t gonna quit using them, the other half of the equation, replacements, allow us a lot more latitude in bull selection.

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

This might be more of a "bull" thing rather than "breed".
I'm big into charts right now because I have the MACR research charts in front of me.
Hereford's actually show the lowest YG (low is best) Hfd 3.19 Angus & R.A. 3.44
But % Choice, Hfd 65.4, Angus 87.6 & RA 89.9
Fat thickness Hfd .50, Ang .58, and RA .53.
REA Hfd 12.32, Ang 12.85 and RA 12.14
Where they got slammed is % Choice.

 

[Kent]

This might be more of a "bull" thing rather than "breed".
I'm big into charts right now because I have the MACR research charts in front of me.
Hereford's actually show the lowest YG (low is best) Hfd 3.19 Angus & R.A. 3.44
But % Choice, Hfd 65.4, Angus 87.6 & RA 89.9
Fat thickness Hfd .50, Ang .58, and RA .53.
REA Hfd 12.32, Ang 12.85 and RA 12.14
Where they got slammed is % Choice.

Agree, Jeanne, and until we have a real method of determining tenderness in a real world situation other than having a guy look at it to see how much fat he can see, that will continue. As has been proven many times, the Hereford marbling just does not show to the eye like the Angus, but when the Hereford "select" is cooked alongside the Angus "choice", and shear force measurements and taste panel tests done, the Hereford is equal. Visual grading is as much of the problem with producers not getting the premiums they deserve as anything. But it sure works for the Angus.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

In this same research they also have Retail product, Fat trim, bone,
SB Shear Force Lb Hfd 9.1, Angus 8.9, RA 9.2
Simm 9.5, GV 10.0, Lm 9.5, Ch 9.6
Tenderness score Hfd 5.63, Angus 5.77, RA 5.69
Simm 5.63, GV 5.32, Lim 5.65, Ch 5.47
Flavor Score Hfd 4.91 Ang 4.93 RA 4.94
Simm 4.85, GV 4.83, Lm 4.88, Ch 4.87
Juiciness Score Hfd 5.32 Ang 5.39 Ra 5.38
Simm 5.28, Gv 5.21, Lm 5.27, Ch 5.21

*Lower Shear values reflect greater tenderness.
*Sensory Scores: 1 = ext tough, bland, or dry
through 8 = extremely tender, intense, or juicy.

 

[Kent]

Thank you, Jeanne, for posting those numbers which support my statement. The Herefords are noticeably lower in visual quality grade, yet there is not a dime's worth of difference between them and the Angus in the real test: how it cooks and eats. Of course, that is why we have CHB, and why it is doing so well for a young program.

 

[dun]

Surprised this hasn;t stirred up a stink

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Maybe the "title' is keeping Hfd breeders from looking :shock:

 

[MikeC]

Thank you, Jeanne, for posting those numbers which support my statement. The Herefords are noticeably lower in visual quality grade, yet there is not a dime's worth of difference between them and the Angus in the real test: how it cooks and eats. Of course, that is why we have CHB, and why it is doing so well for a young program.

Kent, There was a scientific test done by Colorado State Univ. that showed CHB was preferred over CAB by a very large margin in several taste tests. It should be available somewhere on the net.

After reading the study I wondered why the results weren't seen by the public and asked a hereford breeder why. His response was , and I'm paraphrasing, 'It would not be ethical to downgrade another beef brand for our gain'.

After thinking about it long and hard, he might be right. But had the shoe been put on the other foot, I'm sure CAB would have published the results. KnowhatImean?
;-)

 

[smnherf]

Ok, I wasn't going to respond, but I took the bait!

The CSU Monfort study would do alot to discredit this information. Any of you familiar with it?.

Hereford select had better juiciness, flavor and palatability and the mine run USDA choice. The CHB and Ridgefield programs prove every day the value of the Hereford meat at the consumer level, the level where ultimately all the money in the beef or cattle industry comes form.

Does anyone know if or for how long those MARC data was aged for? Might make a big difference.

 

[Kent]

Kent, There was a scientific test done by Colorado State Univ. that showed CHB was preferred over CAB by a very large margin in several taste tests. It should be available somewhere on the net.

After reading the study I wondered why the results weren't seen by the public and asked a hereford breeder why. His response was , and I'm paraphrasing, 'It would not be ethical to downgrade another beef brand for our gain'.

After thinking about it long and hard, he might be right. But had the shoe been put on the other foot, I'm sure CAB would have published the results. KnowhatImean?
;-)

I'm very familiar with the study, as well as the initial studies done by CSU which became the impetus for CHB in the early '90s. As for the Hereford breeder's comments, I would agree, but I do knowhatyoumean. ;-)

Really, it's just common sense that Hereford and Angus are so similar in beef quality. It was proven for decades before the Continental invasion when all we had was Angus, Herf, S'horn, and Brahman. We don't need all these studies to tell us that. I will lay $100 against a nickel that I can pick one of my Dad's registered angus bull calves, one of my registered Hereford calves, and one of my baldy calves (reg Angus X reg Herf), feed them for 110 days, slaughter and age for 14 days, and not one person could tell me the difference in ribeye steaks from them. The reason? There would be no difference!

 

[Susie David]

Agree with Kent...I've been taking samples (2x2x3/4) from all our steers for four years, cooking each on the grill for three minutes a side, no seasoning just meat. I have yet to taste the difference in angus, hefeford and baldy. All are finished the same. DMc

 

[Aero]

dun:
this is just a question, nothing else. why do you choose Hereford over Angus?

i am not saying they will fix the YG problem, i just havent seen the advantages to Hereford over Angus, especially in your area.

 

[orcow]

In over 40 years I can not tell the color of the hide when I am eating a steak.

 

[SimmAngus]

In over 40 years I can not tell the color of the hide when I am eating a steak.

I think that depends on how RARE you like your steak :shock: :lol:

 

[dun]

Agree with Kent...I've been taking samples (2x2x3/4) from all our steers for four years, cooking each on the grill for three minutes a side, no seasoning just meat. I have yet to taste the difference in angus, hefeford and baldy. All are finished the same. DMc

A steak that's burned that bad you might as well try shoe leather too

dun

 

[dun]

dun:
this is just a question, nothing else. why do you choose Hereford over Angus?

i am not saying they will fix the YG problem, i just havent seen the advantages to Hereford over Angus, especially in your area.

Because the Hereford Red Angus F1s make such great cows. We have the same YG problems occasioanlly with the sraight bred Red Angus, just not to the extent we do with the Herford crossed in.
That's why I think the Gelbvieh Hereford F1 would be about the perfect momma cow. Gives you so much flexibility in marketing the offspring depending on how you breed them, i.e. back to continental or to angus

dun

 

[El_Putzo]

Agree with Kent...I've been taking samples (2x2x3/4) from all our steers for four years, cooking each on the grill for three minutes a side, no seasoning just meat. I have yet to taste the difference in angus, hefeford and baldy. All are finished the same. DMc

A steak that's burned that bad you might as well try shoe leather too

dun

You like your steak still mooing don't you Dun. I cook my steak for 7 minutes per side on a charcoal grill and it's usually pink, but warm in the middle and the juice is almost clear, maybe still a little bloody. 9 times out of 10 I can cut my 1" thick ribeye with a fork if I do it this way.

 

[dun]

Agree with Kent...I've been taking samples (2x2x3/4) from all our steers for four years, cooking each on the grill for three minutes a side, no seasoning just meat. I have yet to taste the difference in angus, hefeford and baldy. All are finished the same. DMc

A steak that's burned that bad you might as well try shoe leather too

dun

You like your steak still mooing don't you Dun. I cook my steak for 7 minutes per side on a charcoal grill and it's usually pink, but warm in the middle and the juice is almost clear, maybe still a little bloody. 9 times out of 10 I can cut my 1" thick ribeye with a fork if I do it this way.

If it would quiver it would be perfect. 2 1/2 minutes one side 1 1/2 minutes on the other.

dun

 

[El_Putzo]

Heck, if that's all the longer your going to cook it, I'd save money on charcoal and just use the torch on it, or maybe even one of them aim-n-flame deals. :lol: :lol:

Problem for me is, my wife won't even look at it unless it's pretty much burnt. Even then sometimes she sticks it in the microwave :shock:

 

[dun]

Heck, if that's all the longer your going to cook it, I'd save money on charcoal and just use the torch on it, or maybe even one of them aim-n-flame deals. :lol: :lol:

Problem for me is, my wife won't even look at it unless it's pretty much burnt. Even then sometimes she sticks it in the microwave :shock:

My wife is the same way. I fillet hers and cook it 4-5 minutes on the first side and 2-3 on the second. Don;t understand how she can eat that stuff. About all it is is hot jerky

dun