Probably did it all wrong...need advice

[Bill Elliott]

I'm two years new to raising cattle. The Angus heifer in question is 27 months old and bred to a Limosine bull. Heifer seperated from other cows and started labor...pushing, getting up and laying down..getting back up. This lasted for about an hour. Determined she was having problems and moved her into the handling area. Called the Vet..he arrived about 20 minutes later. We lasso'd her and tied her to the side of the chute..she was not docile..at first but calmed down. Vet determined calf was to big and not coming out on it's own. Pulled calf. Hip of calf was displaced...can't stand up. Heifer was very protective and did not allow me to approach the calf. Decided to let them alone until next morning...about 6 hours later. First light went to check and mother still did not let me approach. After about an hour the heifer walked away and started grazing...did not get excited when I approached the calf...few grunts but did not challenge me...eventually joined the other cows. The calf appeared to have been cleaned up but no indication of nursing...could not stand. I decided to move calf to another area and gave it some bag commercial colostrum....calf took about half a bottle (large)...took remainder this evening. Calf can't stand. I also fed it some whole milk, about one cup.
Guess the wife and I are bottling feeding a calf...any chance the mother will take it back? Vet seems to think it will gain enough strength in a couple of days to stand on three legs. I'm going to build some sort of liter to put under the calf to lift it to help leg/hip heal itself...do you think this will work? Thanks for any advice...cheers, Bill

 

[milkmaid]

Only one comment, and it's on the calf's leg/hip. If it is displaced, it needs to be replaced -- pronto. I've dealt with a few leg problems in cows and calves, and as a general rule, I've found cows can tolerate going 3-legged for an amount of time, and if the problem is fixed, a cow can use the leg again and will be alright.

Calves are a different matter. I've found two problems- one, a calf that has temporary loss of use of the leg(s) or impaired use immediately following birth - forgets how to use the leg. You can see what kind of a mess that turns into. Second, the calf is growing, increased weight is being put on the developing legs, and the other three legs suffer increased stress. The opposite leg from the one that doesn't work, will break down, just a matter of time. I had one such incident here; calf didn't make it.

My opinion? Your vet had better be capable of replacing a dislocated/displaced leg/joint. I personally have no idea how that would be done, but the vet should. LOL. Get him/her to fix the problem...tomorrow.

 

[jkwilson]

The calf needs more milk. Either chute the cow and milk her or milk replacer. She's given up on the calf, so unless they are penned together and she decides it's going to make it, you have a bottle calf.

 

[Rustler9]

I've seen this before in heifers having trouble with calves too big. My dad had one that he had to tie up twice a day for the calf to nurse-it took almost four weeks for her to finally accept her calf. She raised it then and did a fine job. She was fine with her next calf. I think sometimes the stress just turns them off-they don't want anything to do with the calf. My question to you is why would you breed a first calf heifer to a Lim bull anyway? Thank God we never have to pull any calves-I got my fill of that crap many moons ago.

 

[Bill Elliott]

The Limosine bull issue is one I'll now chaulk up to experience. The next bull will be Angus. We are now bottle feeding 3/4 times daily. Thus far calf is taking the replacement milk. I've built a hoist to lift calf off ground and "sort of" stand. Vet came back and said hip is broken...which is not good. Vet is also a cattleman and comes with much experience and recommended I put him down due to his usefulness. I guess I could put him down since his "usefulness" is suspect...but the calf wants to live or at least appears to. I want to see if I can get it strong enough to get up on three legs and see if "mom" will accept it. I know it's a long shot but....

I realize I've brought this all upon myself and much of it is due to my inexperience...I'll take my lumps...all comes with learning. I do appreciate your comments and advice...keep it coming. Cheers, Bill

 

[milkmaid]

Calves are a different matter. I've found two problems- one, a calf that has temporary loss of use of the leg(s) or impaired use immediately following birth - forgets how to use the leg. You can see what kind of a mess that turns into. Second, the calf is growing, increased weight is being put on the developing legs, and the other three legs suffer increased stress. The opposite leg from the one that doesn't work, will break down, just a matter of time. I had one such incident here; calf didn't make it.

Vet came back and said hip is broken...which is not good. Vet is also a cattleman and comes with much experience and recommended I put him down due to his usefulness. I guess I could put him down since his "usefulness" is suspect...but the calf wants to live or at least appears to. I want to see if I can get it strong enough to get up on three legs and see if "mom" will accept it. I know it's a long shot but....

Been there done that. I'll tell you quite honestly...put the calf down. Sorry things turned out the way they did, and I know it's hard with a calf that wants to live, but it'll save you time and money and effort. I don't even mean due to the fact that he won't be "useful" - I mean a 3 legged animal with the other hind leg broken down (tendons/joints/etc damaged) due to stress will eventually reach a point where they do not want to live and will not get up. A 300lb "downer" bottle calf. I had my vet come out about 2, maybe 3 weeks ago and put one down for me. Not that I'm incapable of doing such a thing, but after working with the calf for literally months, I didn't have it in me to do the deed if I didn't have to. I can learn from the past...it isn't going to happen again.

 

[fitz]

Vet is also a cattleman and comes with much experience and recommended I put him down due to his usefulness. I guess I could put him down since his "usefulness" is suspect...but the calf wants to live or at least appears to. I want to see if I can get it strong enough to get up on three legs and see if "mom" will accept it. I know it's a long shot but....
. Cheers, Bill

Bill,
Hate it for you, but I agree with your Vet & Milkmaid, it won't work.

fitz

 

[Texas PaPaw]

Bill

Sorry to hear about the calf, have got to agree with Milkmaid, putting the calf down will be best for all concerned. This calf most likely will be in pain with every movement. It is admirable you are willing to expend the time & energy on this little guy. However the longer you delay the more difficult it will get for both of you and eventually you will have to expend a tremendous amount of emotional energy on this situation.

Bottom line: The calf will have a poor quality of life at best & economically it will be throwing good money after bad. Best to cut your losses now and chalk this one up in the experience column as further efforts will only result in more experience. Sure tough to give up on one, but it will be for the best.

Good luck & best regards.

Brock

 

[Stepper]

Bill,

Last summer i bought a few young heifer's that weighed about 400 lbs. Bought them at the sale barn. I had the vet work them before i loaded them. Well one of them wound up with a broken hind leg. It got broke somehow when it was run in the sqeeze shoot. When they opened the shoot gate the heifer stepped out and fell down. The vet thought at first it had pinched a nerve but learned different later. Lucky for me it happened there at the sale barn. Their insurance covered it and they gave me my money back on the heifer. A couple weeks later i bought some more heifer's and i ask if they put the heifer down and to my surprise they put in a holding lot and was feeding it out. They thought they could go ahead and feed it out and slauter it. But i know it had to be in allot of pain. I wish they had of went ahead and put it down. But it was not my call. It had a clean break just about its hock.

 

[msscamp]

I want to see if I can get it strong enough to get up on three legs and see if "mom" will accept it. I know it's a long shot but....

IMHO you're not doing this calf any favors by not putting him down. His hip is broken and I see no way that he isn't hurting every time he moves. Unless you're milking his mother twice a day, she will probably be dried up long before this calf is able to stand. I would have already put him down. Just my thoughts

 

[AngusLimoX]

I am sorta laying back here waiting to hear how you made out Bill.

You are rarely gonna go wrong considering Milkmaids advice, in my opinion.

I think you are putting way to much blame on yourself over the breeding decisions. Almost any cross can throw a biggun.

Wishing for the best for you.

If we didn't care for them we wouldn't be raisin them because the pay sure sucks!

 

[Bama]

I gotta agree with most everone else, put it down. Milkmaid saying put it downs says more than the rest of us. She has more patience than most of us could or would muster. She has really went beyond what most of us would on calves. I admire her for this.

 

[topsquar]

The Limosine bull issue is one I'll now chaulk up to experience. The next bull will be Angus. We are now bottle feeding 3/4 times daily. Thus far calf is taking the replacement milk. I've built a hoist to lift calf off ground and "sort of" stand. Vet came back and said hip is broken...which is not good. Vet is also a cattleman and comes with much experience and recommended I put him down due to his usefulness. I guess I could put him down since his "usefulness" is suspect...but the calf wants to live or at least appears to. I want to see if I can get it strong enough to get up on three legs and see if "mom" will accept it. I know it's a long shot but....

I realize I've brought this all upon myself and much of it is due to my inexperience...I'll take my lumps...all comes with learning. I do appreciate your comments and advice...keep it coming. Cheers, Bill

27 month old angus heifer??? and you blame the limousin? if you live in the U.S your limousin bull would of been a %limousin bull graded up from angus as i am yet to see a "real limousin bull in america, do you only have one cow?? as it was the only one with calving dificulty? if you have 100 cows and one cow has calving dificulties i wouldnt sell the bull. 8)

 

[msscamp]

The Limosine bull issue is one I'll now chaulk up to experience. The next bull will be Angus. We are now bottle feeding 3/4 times daily. Thus far calf is taking the replacement milk. I've built a hoist to lift calf off ground and "sort of" stand. Vet came back and said hip is broken...which is not good. Vet is also a cattleman and comes with much experience and recommended I put him down due to his usefulness. I guess I could put him down since his "usefulness" is suspect...but the calf wants to live or at least appears to. I want to see if I can get it strong enough to get up on three legs and see if "mom" will accept it. I know it's a long shot but....

I realize I've brought this all upon myself and much of it is due to my inexperience...I'll take my lumps...all comes with learning. I do appreciate your comments and advice...keep it coming. Cheers, Bill

27 month old angus heifer??? and you blame the limousin?

I'm not sure I understand this. Would you please elaborate? Thanks!

 

[Ryder]

I realize I've brought this all upon myself and much of it is due to my inexperience...

How so? The only thing I can see is that if you knew the cow was not taking the calf you should have tried to get some colostrum in it sooner. Other than that I don't see where you can fault yourself.

Shoot the calf and get on to better things.

 

[Bill Elliott]

Thanks for the advice...much appreciated...know you all have "been there...done that" and speak from experience. I've got the hoist rigged up and have the calf in a body sling where he can take the pressure off the hip and sort of stand up. He takes the bottle much better this way. I'm gonna rig him up three times a day for about an hour or until he complains...he starts belly aching now in about 15 minutes...but taking bottle and tail wagging. Gonna give him a chance. I will have the Vet back out Saturday morning and if his opinion has not changed...then will put down. Learning each time I walk out the back door. Thanks again...cheers, Bill

 

[Victoria]

Bill,
Sorry about your problems. Ryder was right when he said colostrum earlier. As far as what to breed them to there are good bulls and bad bulls in every breed but that said we switched to Red Angus bulls from Charolais bulls a few years back and just don't have the number of pulls and vet issues that we used to. I don't want to knock anyone's breed but those are the facts here at least.
I am really wondering why you are set on keeping this calf alive. What do you think will happen as he gets larger? What are your future plans for him? I don't like putting down any animal that wants to make it but I just can't see the good of keeping this guy alive.

 

[Bill Elliott]

Victoria..all, Good questions...I can't point to any one reason as to why I want to keep this animal alive. I guess because I'm retired and have the time to try and care for the animal. Maybe it's because I just retired from the military and saw my share of death and destruction during my career, especially my last 17 months in a war-zone and keeping him alive seems like the right thing to do. Maybe it's because the animal wants to live, maybe it's the way the calf "attacks" the bottle, sucking a quart or more each time I feed him (3/4 times a day/night). I just don't know....
The Vet came back out yesterday..said the animal was looking pretty good...all things considered. The break is not at it's hip but just below the hip but above the knee. The Vet believes it will take about a month to heal but believes the animal has a good chance of being "useful"....something I'm not worried about at this time. We will lift him up 3 or 4 times a day and let him stand and "walk" for about 15/20 minutes..he tires quickly but is getting stronger. Will be doing this until he can do it on his own.
I am personally amazed he has made it this far...he weighed almost 93 lbs at birth and stands 32 inches high. Equally, Amazing... "mom" is doing just fine.
The Vet does not believe the calf is experiencing much pain, some discomfort when we lift him up but necessary. Vet will come back out in two weeks to check on the calf.
We have 4 more calves to drop and hope they fair better but will be prepared just in case.....cheers, Bill

 

[AngusLimoX]

You may be new to cattle, but I bet you could teach a lot of us more than a little about life.

I had a "feeling" how you were going to go on this and I was pretty sure your little guy had a future.

Thank you very much for posting, you really made my day!

Good luck with the calf !!

 

[milkmaid]

Bill, do I need to say it again? The calf has not had the opportunity to use the leg. Ever. Even if it DOES heal in a month's time, do you have any idea of the atrophy to the muscles from not being used for "only" that amount of time? Sounds like it's a break at the stifle joint. It's not going to take him too long to realize it hurts to use that leg -and so he's not going to use it. By the time it's healed, he will be conditioned to not use it, not put weight on it, AND, it will be atrophied to the point that he can't use it well even if he wanted to. IMO it's a losing game.

But-- if you do decide to stick it out, keep us posted as to how it turns out. Make sure you set for yourself a time limit as to when that calf has to be well or *BANG*. Otherwise this could go on indefinetly with you putting more and more $$$ into him......