Prices

[cattle_gal]

I've been wondering for some time now what the price have been and are for the Canadian cattle.

So what I found was the market report for the country and year to date prices. I also looked up the exchange rate. $1 CA = $.785 US as .215 cent difference.

In Edmonton it is $92 - 105 for 500-600 lbs an ave of $ 98. In US dollars that's $77. A year ago it was $110 - 116 for an ave of $113. In Us dollars that's 91.5.

Ok help me out here last year when there was still one case of BSE in the books the average price in Canada was $12 higher than our 10 year average up to then. The 10 year aveage in 2003 was $81. And this year Canada is at $77 (with exchange rate). Most of us Americans remember to unfondly in 1995 and 1996 when prices were no better than $55 to $62 (US). And this year we think we went to heaven with our prices raising our average greatly.

So my Canadian neighbors to balance out things what is and was the cost of hay, grain, ect?

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

Most of us Americans remember to unfondly in 1995 and 1996 when prices were no better than $55 to $62 (US)

This sounds like a pretty skewed argument to me. What do you think Canadian cattle prices were in 1995 and 1996? What is the difference in prices on feeders and fed cattle now between Canada and the US? What are your cull cows and bulls worth compared to Canadian cows and bulls? How much affect do you think that inflation has had on cattle prices since 1995?

Answer those questions truthfully and I think you will see what the problem is.

 

[cattle_gal]

CRR,

There's nothing "skewed" about the question. Why don't you tell me what your prices have been for the past 10 years. I have been wondering what they have been up there. What has been your 10 year average? And what were your prices in also in 95 and 96? Why is every thing so hush about past years prices?

It would do a ton of good if us here in the US would know what the past history was. All we do know is there wasn't any complaints about how the prices were until the border shut down. And only focusing on this years good prices for us. So let us know what's been going on up there in the past.

A 10 year average on culls up to 2003 was $34. And in 2004 we have gotten about $52 for culls. To make a 10 year average $37. And in my previous post I gave the 10 year average for the feeders. The 10 year ave from 1994 to 2004 is $93. Of course there is a difference in prices now. But if we don't have your past and only have our past prices(espeically when NAFTA got into full swing) and what is happening now with our prices how can we understand what you have been going through.

NAFTA is the worst thing that happened - not just for ag but all industries for the US and Canada. It isn't fair trade. I'm not much on socialisim so I beleive that a country should take care of there own. Not rely on outside countries to suport them. And the leaders of this country are trying to make it a one world economy. And make you and us as one county. Which we aren't. And the same with subsities. The gov tells people they can't do this or that, but hey they'll give out a few dollars to help because of there restrictions. I hope that the US buyers who pushed for the border to close and then bought the Canandian cattle when the border shut down loose their shirt. They played both sides of the issue. If your going to be on one side of the issue stick with it.

Inflation is horrible. When we and I'm sure you too get prices that might have kept up with the rest of the retail world 20 years ago but doesn't even come close now.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

NAFTA is the worst thing that happened - not just for ag but all industries for the US and Canada. It isn't fair trade. I'm not much on socialisim so I beleive that a country should take care of there own. Not rely on outside countries to suport them. And the leaders of this country are trying to make it a one world economy.

The socialists are anti free trade.

I beleive that a country should take care of there own.

This is exactly the socialist viewpoint.

the leaders of this country are trying to make it a one world economy

Wrong. It is a world economy. Adjust or become a third world country. Both the US and Canadian economies are based on technology and
marketing. We can't compete in the manufacturing sector with countries like China. I've been through this several times before with the other socialists on this board.

The reason I phrased everything in questions is because I'm not interested in starting a fight.
Cattle prices are based on something called 'the basis'. To simplify it, our ten year average is about the same as yours in Canadian dollars minus shipping.

Here is the latest in Canadian dollars from the local auction mart.


Winnipeg, MB, Sep 28, 2004 (Resource News International via COMTEX) -- The following is a summary of Manitoba's Winnipeg Livestock Sales Ltd.'s Tuesday report.

MANITOBA

The Winnipeg Livestock Market had 237 cattle on market Tuesday, September 28, 2004. Finished cattle traded steady to last week's activity. Cows saw good demand, with the most interest in dry fed cows. Bulls were steady.

SLAUGHTER CATTLE
Choice steers and heifers $0.70-0.74 1/4
Select steers and heifers $0.68-0.70
Cows - dry fed $0.20-0.25 and a few to 0.34
- good fleshed $0.15-0.20
- lean $0.11-0.15
Good bulls $0.18-0.23

 

[Oldtimer]

CRR,



[NAFTA is the worst thing that happened - not just for ag but all industries for the US and Canada. It isn't fair trade. I'm not much on socialisim so I beleive that a country should take care of there own. Not rely on outside countries to suport them. And the leaders of this country are trying to make it a one world economy. And make you and us as one county. Which we aren't. And the same with subsities. The gov tells people they can't do this or that, but hey they'll give out a few dollars to help because of there restrictions. I hope that the US buyers who pushed for the border to close and then bought the Canandian cattle when the border shut down loose their shirt. They played both sides of the issue. If your going to be on one side of the issue stick with it. ]



Amen - NAFTA has been a disaster for Montana.

 

[cattle_gal]

Whoa!! Socialist my foot. That's....ewww. Especially since our whole family is known to be the most conservative/ constitutional people around. Perhaps I should better phrase the country taking care of their own. Which does sound bad when it is by it's self not with the rest of the
sentences around it. When a country depends on outside countries that is socialism. If one relies on someone else (government/ welfare ) to give money or give them handouts that is socialism. If one expects to have the same as others and everyone to be the same that is socialism. When one can work and live by their own means and buy with their own money and NOT say - he's got more than I do I want his stuff too for nothing, that is Capitalism. And I know that I'd scrub toilets or live as a hermit (oh wait I'm close enough to that ) before I ever go in to a welfare office. And I hope you do to. We have plenty of resources here in the US that we can supply our own country. But yet the government says to lessen productivity and bring in outside supplies - thus the jobs are lost and those people have to depend on the gov for support. Yuck. Same as the manufacturing going to China. Taxes, taxes, taxes and very cheap labor elsewhere. Doesn't help our economy one bit. Gov lives high on the hog. The company my brother works for (really big) requires all the components to be made in China. Now if that isn't something. The company refuses to by anything but. Keep cost down. The worst case in the US has been the shut down with the logging industry. You wouldn't believe all the auction brouchures I get in the mail for mills going up for sale. Just about all lumber/ particle wood comes from Canada. If houses are being built and if you get your lumber from a building supply store then chances are it comes from Canada. But that doesn't mean that the companies are Canadian. Weyerhaeuser and LP I bet are thick there.

There is a saying about subsidies- Live without them or die with them. Here in the US, cattlemen don't get subsidized like the farmers. If one should want it would be either crop or "conservation" easements/CRP. Every once in a while cattlemen get loss of grazing/hay subsides due to drought. About 30% of what hay would cost. The latest (past 2 years) the gov decides to "help" the livestock producer by giving them old human non fat powered milk. 45 lbs per head. Jump for joy? :roll:

However, are you saying that NAFTA has been good for you? For some yes most no. There needs to be alot of revamping done on the agreement. One side is free to do what they want while there is restrictions for the other side. And that could be on anything either US or Canada. The government gets to decide how they want the cards played.
Some countries can bring what ever in but yet we can not export to them. And in Canada can't bring in some things to the US that the US is bring in to Canada. This is a sore deal within republicans also. Bush 1 was not what was called a conservative republican. If a high economy
nation tries to help(hand outs) a poor economy nation(name any one of the 3 world countries) raise their economy, it never succeeds. The poor economy nation will drag the high economy nation down.

Are you for every country being the same (one world economy / one world power) and each country having the same currency? Hey, lets take Venezuela - it's $.0005 to the $1 US. Each country is of their own and there own environment and ideas. There is a difference in the world
economy (trading) and a one world economy(the whole world ruled by one government). Do you want to be ruled by some strong hold in Russia for example. And all decisions coming from one office(in there country). I sure in heck don't and won't. There will be my blood shed first.

But I think the above paragraphs are to close to the politics no no for the board. So enough of that.

Thank your for your 10 year average. See that wasn't that hard was it.

CRR lighten up you know that Canada took the US to the bank when they sold those rotten wolves to the US government for $1 million apiece. And Canada said - take more take more. :lol: :lol:

 

[Caustic Burno]

CRR,



[NAFTA is the worst thing that happened - not just for ag but all industries for the US and Canada. It isn't fair trade. I'm not much on socialisim so I beleive that a country should take care of there own. Not rely on outside countries to suport them. And the leaders of this country are trying to make it a one world economy. And make you and us as one county. Which we aren't. And the same with subsities. The gov tells people they can't do this or that, but hey they'll give out a few dollars to help because of there restrictions. I hope that the US buyers who pushed for the border to close and then bought the Canandian cattle when the border shut down loose their shirt. They played both sides of the issue. If your going to be on one side of the issue stick with it. ]



Amen - NAFTA has been a disaster for Montana.

I agree Nafta has been a disaster for the country wait till 01/01/12 then GAT that was attached takes effect.

 

[dun]

After 3 years of drought we got one of those subsidy deals to make up for the loss of grazing. For everything over 6 months we got $4.50, whopee. But it was $4.50 a head more then we had.

dun

 

[amazed]

I've been wondering for some time now what the price have been and are for the Canadian cattle.

So what I found was the market report for the country and year to date prices. I also looked up the exchange rate. $1 CA = $.785 US as .215 cent difference.

In Edmonton it is $92 - 105 for 500-600 lbs an ave of $ 98. In US dollars that's $77. A year ago it was $110 - 116 for an ave of $113. In Us dollars that's 91.5.

Ok help me out here last year when there was still one case of BSE in the books the average price in Canada was $12 higher than our 10 year average up to then. The 10 year aveage in 2003 was $81. And this year Canada is at $77 (with exchange rate). Most of us Americans remember to unfondly in 1995 and 1996 when prices were no better than $55 to $62 (US). And this year we think we went to heaven with our prices raising our average greatly.

So my Canadian neighbors to balance out things what is and was the cost of hay, grain, ect?

Canfax Report:

COMPARING CANADIAN AND U.S. 550 POUND STEERS

The three-year average for 2000-2002 on Alberta 550 pound steers was $148.00/cwt, while the three-year average for a 550-pound steer in the United States (in Canadian dollars) was $148.63/cwt, a difference of only $0.63/cwt. During this time, the difference between the U.S. price and the Canadian price ranged between –$13.50/cwt and +$15.29/cwt. Historically, the spread between U.S. 550 pound steers and Canadian 550 pound steers narrows from October to December. During October and November volumes of calves trading increases as cow/calf producers wean and sell for cash flow. The spread in December will widen again, but still at lower levels than the rest of the year due to the fact that calves placed on feeder during this time finish in a summer market that is typically sluggish.

In 2000, the annual average for a 550 pound Canadian steer was $153.86, $6.00/cwt stronger than the U.S. average at $147.88. In 2001, the spread between the Canadian and U.S. 550 pound steer average narrowed to +$2.00/cwt as the U.S. average gained 5 per cent and the Canadian average only gained 2 per cent. Part of this can be attributed to the Canadian dollar falling 4 per cent in 2001 compared to 2000. In 2002, both the U.S. and Canadian steer calf average fell (8 per cent and 16 per cent, respectively) resulting in the Canadian 550 steer price $9.86/cwt lower than the U.S. mostly due to the drought.

Since BSE, the difference between Canadian and U.S. 550 pound averaged has ranged between –$22.19 and -$71.61 and is a direct result of a continued border closure. The year-to-date 2004 average for U.S. 550 pound steers (in Canadian dollars) is 11 per cent stronger than last year and 8.5 per cent higher than 2002. The year-to-date Canadian 550 pound steer is 20 per cent lower than a year ago and down 25 per cent from 2002. Therefore, the difference between the Canadian average at $100.05 and U.S. average at $154.58 is -$54.53/cwt.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

cattle_gal

If free trade is such a bad thing for the US, why does the government keep signing free trade agreements with so many countries. I think that it is kind of odd that you think you are hard done by. The American culture has spread itself all over the world. How do you think the Mom and Pop operations felt when Canada got Wal-Mart. You can buy a Coke or go to McDonalds in almost any place in the world and you complain about imports. As far as the lumber industry goes, our lumber is cheap because we have so much of it. A big chunk of the land in Canada is not suitable for doing anything other than growing trees. Its funny that you think you should be the most cost efficient produce of everything. It will be rough going the next while as the world economy aligns itself. As far as your comment on the other economies dragging down the US, Do you not believe that everybody in the world has the right to work hard and succeed? Isn't that the basis of freedom and the American dream that the US was built on? As far as free trade goes, if you decide to implement tariffs, even false tariffs to imports, other countries will set up retaliatory tariffs. This will lose the US jobs even faster as retaliatory tariffs will make US goods more expensive on the international market, decreasing your exports while US tariffs will make imported goods more expensive. This will lead to higher expenses and higher unemployment and decrease your standard of living. Right now in the States, consumers can buy gas and oil cheaper than consumers can in Canada and we produce it for you. Same with natural gas and hydro electricity. Basically, if I understand you correctly, you seem to think that everyone in the world should accept US made products and US chains in their countries but you don't want to accept anything from them that you don't want and anything you do want, you want it cheap. Am I wrong?

 

[CattleAnnie]

Hey there Cattle_gal,
I've been doing some research on those prices you asked for, but so far haven't been able to come up with anything concrete.

However, I did run across a very interesting document regarding the integration of Canadian and US cattle markets. I've taken the liberty of posting a link to this report.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/research/ ... 002053.pdf

(The above is a pdf document, and may require some time to open as it uses Adobe)

The below link is to Agriculture Canada's site. I can't seem to open the pages with the market prices from 1996 and up, but it may be that my computer has a glitch. Let me know if it works for you. If I ever come across the 1995 Canadian cattle market prices, I'll add the link to that as well.


http://www.agr.gc.ca/misb/aisd/redmeat/almrcalendar.htm


Take care.

 

[cattle_gal]

CRR,

You know I must be slipping. It took me 3 of your replies to see that you're a Spin Doctor. I point out something and you conjure the opposite of what I stated. :x You have no intentions of making this thread a conversation. I do not know if you do this with everyone, or only Americans, or if you actually have a piece of Monopoly pie somewhere in the whole NAFTA pact. I'm afraid you'll need to go spin on someone else I do not "trade" so to speak with crafty individuals.

Amazed and CattleAnnie,

I thank you so much for the links and the report. I'll get to looking up and reading all the info.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

you're a Spin Doctor. I point out something and you conjure the opposite of what I stated.

Spin Doctor, eh. Could you be more specific on what you mean by that ? By your replies it seems pretty apparent that you are just another one of these socialist/protectionists. All I'm looking for is fair trade and trying to point out to you how America expects everybody else to take their exports but you don't want anybody's imports. Explain to me how that makes me a spin doctor.

 

[cattle_gal]

Cattle Annie,

Wow that website you gave me

http://www.agr.gc.ca/misb/aisd/redmeat/almrcalendar.htm

Is a huge database. It will take a long time to look through. I have to convert the Excell files over to Corel Quatro pro. But I did find the pre 1996 prices you asked about. Click on 1996 on the website and then either tables 12 or 13 and it will go back to 1992.

and the direct URL is - http://www.agr.gc.ca/misb/aisd/redmeat/almr1996.htm

The PDF was a no go - as usual. Infact this is the 2nd time I get to write a reply to you. The PDF froze my computer. I've got to get in and find the problem. errase and start over installing the PDF.

 

[CattleAnnie]

Sorry 'bout that, Cattle_Gal! It didn't freeze my computer when I tried to open it; just wouldn't open period. Mind you I've had more than my fair share of glitches with this thing lately. Thought installing an additional hard drive and memory card would help, but unfortunately you've gotta be smarter than the machine...bummer for me.

Anyway, glad to hear that some of the info was helpful.

Take care.