Preg Check

[Lucky]

Not sure if any of y'all remember but last year we had a terrible breed up. Ended up with something like 44% open. We preg checked yesterday and had much better results. We've used the same palpation guy for the last 10 yrs or more so he knows our cows pretty well and before he started he told us that allot of herds in the area are getting the results we had last year. He said he's been to a bunch of places that generally have 10% or less opens and they are having 35-40% open and can't figure out why.

We had 15% open this year which is our average. 55% of those were 3 year olds, 20% were 4 yr olds that had some sort of issue after their last calf, the rest were older cows. There was only 2 cows that I was really surprised were open. One was a big tall brangus cow that wouldn't stand right and he had a hard time checking and the other was a big fat 6 yr old Angus cow.

I've ran down every avenue trying to figure out why we had so many opens last year and came up empty. Guess I'll chock it up to a bad year. I know to some 15% is allot and we try to get to less than 10% but just haven't gotten there. It's generally 3 yr olds that runs our avg up. 10-12% is the avg for our area. I think it's the heat and humidity we have.

 

[Brute 23]

When was your breeding season?

3yr olds meaning trying to get bred with second calf?

 

[coachg]

When was your breeding season?

3yr olds meaning trying to get bred with second calf?

I’d say first calf heifers not breeding back for 2nd calf . Hardest group I have to breed back .

 

[Brute 23]

I’d say first calf heifers not breeding back for 2nd calf . Hardest group I have to breed back .

That is my understanding also. I was ready a deal one time that talked about not pushing feed to heifers but to monitor the 2nd calf group as they are most likely to be effected by management/ environment than any other group.

 

[TCRanch]

That is my understanding also. I was ready a deal one time that talked about not pushing feed to heifers but to monitor the 2nd calf group as they are most likely to be effected by management/ environment than any other group.

This. I try to keep cubes to a minimum with bred heifers but give extra to 1st calf heifers before and even after the bulls are turned out. And mineral!!!

 

[Lucky]

Yes trying to get heifers bred back after their first calf. We fed them separately for 2 months after they calved but due to a bull issue had to turn them in with the cows at the beginning of breeding season. We turn bulls in May 1st and pull them in August. We try for August 1st but don't always get them that soon.

 

[Brute 23]

@Lucky , out of curiosity, have you ever tried to hold the calves off the cows, like when you work them, for 24hrs or so to see if it would help everything cycle?

We do it now because it works better for matching up but I do think it works. Its not a silver bullet but may get you closer to that 10% or less.

 

[Lucky]

@Lucky , out of curiosity, have you ever tried to hold the calves off the cows, like when you work them, for 24hrs or so to see if it would help everything cycle?

We do it now because it works better for matching up but I do think it works. Its not a silver bullet but may get you closer to that 10% or less.

We've thought about that and people that do it swear it works but we have never tried it. Another trick people say works well is to pull a 1 bull every two weeks and let him rest for 2 weeks. They say he'll be a breeding machine when turned back in.

Never thought a out the pairing up side of holding the calves for 24hrs. That would definitely be an added benefit.

 

[Brute 23]

We've thought about that and people that do it swear it works but we have never tried it. Another trick people say works well is to pull a 1 bull every two weeks and let him rest for 2 weeks. They say he'll be a breeding machine when turned back in.

Never thought a out the pairing up side of holding the calves for 24hrs. That would definitely be an added benefit.

Ya we catch cows first thing that morning and split the cows and calves. The cows get worked that day and turned into a trap right by the pens. Then we come back the next morning or evening and work the calves. We put one or two people on an atv or sxs just tracking calves to their moms and writing it down as we turn them out. It takes the guess work out. I have never had any problems or issues with it and have definitely tracked some calf dates to around that time.

 

[Travlr]

Not sure if any of y'all remember but last year we had a terrible breed up. Ended up with something like 44% open. We preg checked yesterday and had much better results. We've used the same palpation guy for the last 10 yrs or more so he knows our cows pretty well and before he started he told us that allot of herds in the area are getting the results we had last year. He said he's been to a bunch of places that generally have 10% or less opens and they are having 35-40% open and can't figure out why.

We had 15% open this year which is our average. 55% of those were 3 year olds, 20% were 4 yr olds that had some sort of issue after their last calf, the rest were older cows. There was only 2 cows that I was really surprised were open. One was a big tall brangus cow that wouldn't stand right and he had a hard time checking and the other was a big fat 6 yr old Angus cow.

I've ran down every avenue trying to figure out why we had so many opens last year and came up empty. Guess I'll chock it up to a bad year. I know to some 15% is allot and we try to get to less than 10% but just haven't gotten there. It's generally 3 yr olds that runs our avg up. 10-12% is the avg for our area. I think it's the heat and humidity we have.

You've said you get 300 pound weaners on another thread and now 44% open last year?

You also say neighbors in the area are having low conceptions rates?

Do they also have late breeders or dink calves?

If it wasn't for the neighbors having the same problems, I'd say you had a management issue. Cos have to be in a gaining cycle to breed well. I like them gaining a month before the bulls go out and still gaining at the end of the breeding season... so for four months. About 50 pounds a month on a 1300 pound cow coming out of winter, 1500 by the end of the season. A little less on lighter cows, of course.
And I cull cows that raise dink calves. Late breeding is one thing, but a cow that raises a dink is down the road...

 

[Lucky]

You've said you get 300 pound weaners on another thread and now 44% open last year?

You also say neighbors in the area are having low conceptions rates?

Do they also have late breeders or dink calves?

If it wasn't for the neighbors having the same problems, I'd say you had a management issue. Cos have to be in a gaining cycle to breed well. I like them gaining a month before the bulls go out and still gaining at the end of the breeding season... so for four months. About 50 pounds a month on a 1300 pound cow coming out of winter, 1500 by the end of the season. A little less on lighter cows, of course.
And I cull cows that raise dink calves. Late breeding is one thing, but a cow that raises a dink is down the road...

Read the threads I've posted. I have nothing to hide as hiding does nothing when it comes to improving. Calling a 350 pound calf a 450 pound calf because you guess the weight proves nothing either.

We typically have 15% opens in a 90 day breeding season. We have the hardest time getting 3 yr olds bred back. The 3 yr old deal falls on me as a management issue but there's only so much time in a day so things slip. Last year we had a terrible breed up and I couldn't figure out why. Our light calves this year are out of 1st calf heifers. Unfortunately I don't know an older cow will raise a dink until she's raised it. I haven't gone through the system yet but Thursday majority of the calves seemed to be in the 475-550 range as they came through the chute.

 

[Travlr]

Read the threads I've posted. I have nothing to hide as hiding does nothing when it comes to improving. Calling a 350 pound calf a 450 pound calf because you guess the weight proves nothing either.

We typically have 15% opens in a 90 day breeding season. We have the hardest time getting 3 yr olds bred back. The 3 yr old deal falls on me as a management issue but there's only so much time in a day so things slip. Last year we had a terrible breed up and I couldn't figure out why. Our light calves this year are out of 1st calf heifers. Unfortunately I don't know an older cow will raise a dink until she's raised it. I haven't gone through the system yet but Thursday majority of the calves seemed to be in the 475-550 range as they came through the chute.

I'm trying to critique your program from the information you've posted... assuming that the problems you have expressed are concerning and you are looking for answers/suggestions. I never said anything about you "hiding" anything... so that is nothing I am concerned about.

You've expressed a very bad conception rate and low weaning weights on calves. That's what I'm trying to figure out for you, so I can suggest things you might consider.

As said... if your neighbors are having similar results it's may not be "your" problem, but something else.

 

[Lucky]

I'm trying to critique your program from the information you've posted... assuming that the problems you have expressed are concerning and you are looking for answers/suggestions. I never said anything about you "hiding" anything... so that is nothing I am concerned about.

You've expressed a very bad conception rate and low weaning weights on calves. That's what I'm trying to figure out for you, so I can suggest things you might consider.

As said... if your neighbors are having similar results it's may not be "your" problem, but something else.

Agreed....I'm going to look over our results from Thursday later tonight to get a better picture on things. One thing I feel lent itself to lighter weaning weights this year was drought. We had about an inch of rain from the 1st of August until November.

 

[Lucky]

All but 2 of the calves under 400#'s were out of the heifers we bought. The man I bought them from told me that he thought he went to far on his heifer bulls and the calves would be light. They were the smallest calves I've seen born and I knew they weren't growing well. The plane was to keep the heifers seperate from the cows and feed them as long as we thought was needed. Dang bull we bought to go with them broke a foot so that went out the window and we mixed them in with the cows early. They were actually looking good until the rain stopped in August. The older cows held up fine but the heifers lost allot of condition.

 

[Double R Ranch]

@Lucky , out of curiosity, have you ever tried to hold the calves off the cows, like when you work them, for 24hrs or so to see if it would help everything cycle?

We do it now because it works better for matching up but I do think it works. Its not a silver bullet but may get you closer to that 10% or less.

Many years ago when I took the AI class this was taught to increase fertility. The theory is it causes the cows to stop pushing nutrients to milk and allow for better fertility. I also know that dairies around here breed right before milking so the oxytocin letdown helps with conception. So that also makes sense in turning out cows post breeding back with their calves.

 

[Travlr]

Many years ago when I took the AI class this was taught to increase fertility. The theory is it causes the cows to stop pushing nutrients to milk and allow for better fertility. I also know that dairies around here breed right before milking so the oxytocin letdown helps with conception. So that also makes sense in turning out cows post breeding back with their calves.

This is kind of fascinating... I've not heard of it before. I'll have to find some research...

 

[Lucky]

I may try it this year. We can easily separate them for 24-48 hrs when we do our spring Working.

 

[W.B.]

To get cows pregnant they need to be in a positive state of nutrition prior to and during their breeding season. From what you described your cows were losing weight during their breeding season. What would you say was their avg body condition score when the bulls were turned out?