predator problem

[lawnviewfarm]

Hi all,

Looking for input and suggestions ... we have a 'new to us' cattle pasture that we acquired just over a year ago. This 75-acre pasture is fully fenced with 6-strands of bard-wire around the perimeter. Since the beginning of Feb. this year, we have had a number of predator attacks on adult cows (all really docile Herefords so far-not knocking the breed here). A Wa. State Fish and Wildlife officer believes the attacks are coyotes. We've not located any definite location(s) where the predator(s) are entering/exiting the pasture. Also, the pasture is bisected by a creek which is fenced off with 6-strand bard wire.

What would you recommend as predator defense and which methods have worked for you:

Nite-Guard (flashing red lights) www.niteguard.com
USDA Electronic Guard (strobe light & siren) http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/fshe ... guard.html
livestock guard animal (llama or donkey or ???)
electric fence & field fence
trapping
hunting
anything else ?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

--Marc

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Start by trapping and hunting. I dought its coyotes. Pick youself up a good ole longhorn cow.

 

[Jogeephus]

I just sold a brangus cow that would have been perfect for the job.

 

[Isomade]

Like RBB I would be shocked if it were Coyotes. If you get a donkey get a Jenny.

 

[lawnviewfarm]

RBB & Isomade,

The other possibility of predator is that it could be a cougar ... but the wounds on the cows are more like that of a coyote ... from the rear not the neck. According the the Wildlife Dept. there 4 known predators in the general area: coyote, cougar, bobcat, and black bear ... listed in order of likelihood.

Any recommendations on a good trail cam?

--Stumped

 

[Dave]

Where on the rear are the wounds located. I have seen wounds for a cougar on both horses and cattle on the rear. A coyote is only about knee high so wounds would be very low and I can't imagine a coyote atacking a full grown cow. If there are bite wounds low on the legs my guess would be the neighbors dogs.

The WDFW seriously doesn't want to admit that cougars are causing any damage to anything.

 

[Isomade]

Where on the rear are the wounds located. I have seen wounds for a cougar on both horses and cattle on the rear. A coyote is only about knee high so wounds would be very low and I can't imagine a coyote atacking a full grown cow. If there are bite wounds low on the legs my guess would be the neighbors dogs.

The WDFW seriously doesn't want to admit that cougars are causing any damage to anything.

Bingo! I agree, domesticated dogs are a much more likely culprit.

 

[dun]

Where on the rear are the wounds located. I have seen wounds for a cougar on both horses and cattle on the rear. A coyote is only about knee high so wounds would be very low and I can't imagine a coyote atacking a full grown cow. If there are bite wounds low on the legs my guess would be the neighbors dogs.

The WDFW seriously doesn't want to admit that cougars are causing any damage to anything.

Bingo! I agree, domesticated dogs are a much more likely culprit.

That's my choice too.

 

[lawnviewfarm]

Dave,

The wounds are on the rear under the tail (anus and vulva specifically) and on the udder. We were thinking the 'yotes run the cow till she is exhausted then move for their attack. No signs of a struggle. The one cow was a known kicker of anything/anyone that would get close to her from behind. And her wounds were all as described above. All have appeared the same ... chewed up under the tail, udder, and then obvious gnawing of bones once the skin is broken through. Internal organs and soft tissues eaten. All these cows are 6-8 year-old proven cows. I kept my young cows and heifers back at the home place.

The WDFW officer did mention a sighting of a cougar up by the Centralia mine and that they will roam ~30 sq miles as their territory. Unfortunately, this pasture is inside this 30 mile area. There is a 30-arce pasture and a creek (Salzer Creek for those that know the area) between the woods to the south and the ~45-acre pasture where these cows were. There is a paved road and hill-side to the north, open hay fields to the east and west.

Y'all still think I have a cougar on my hands?

Thanks for your help ...

--Marc

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

If you have room at the home place I think I'd move the cattle there until somebody figures out what's going on.

Good luck.

 

[1wlimo]

If it is dogs or coyotes then they could be hamstringing them first, will be several.

The only way to help your fence slow them up is to power every second wire, and earth the rest. You need as much power in the live ones as possible and a very good earth.

 

[Dave]

OK, I know Salzer Valley pretty well. There are most definately cougars in the area. I have a friend who saw a big male on Coal Creek Road. I know people who have seen them on Seminary Hill. That would be both North and South of Salzer valley. I have never heard of a coyote chasing a mature cow. Brand new calves, a cow down in the process of calving, yes, but never a mature cow.

The one thing that puzzels me is that there is no sign of a struggle. A big cow can and will put up a pretty good fight. And the location of the eating on the cows sounds like the areas that various scavengers will start eating on a carcass. Is there something else which could be killing the cows other than predators?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Chupacabra!

 

[dieselbeef]

why aint ya fgured out whats gittin em by the tracks...

leave some poison outside where the attacks are happening. stuff a chicken or sprinkle some rat poison on some big thigh bones or the hip bones. if yer worried bout indescriminate killing hang it from a tree where a cat or yote will jump for it but the coons and such cant reach

snares work good..as do leg traps..

are they killing the cows? or just wounding them. how long they dead til ya find em?

 

[1wlimo]

OK, I know Salzer Valley pretty well. There are most definately cougars in the area. I have a friend who saw a big male on Coal Creek Road. I know people who have seen them on Seminary Hill. That would be both North and South of Salzer valley. I have never heard of a coyote chasing a mature cow. Brand new calves, a cow down in the process of calving, yes, but never a mature cow.

The one thing that puzzels me is that there is no sign of a struggle. A big cow can and will put up a pretty good fight. And the location of the eating on the cows sounds like the areas that various scavengers will start eating on a carcass. Is there something else which could be killing the cows other than predators?

Not trying to argue with you Dave but I have seen three coyotes take out a deer when I had no way of stopping them. They worked as a team, one goes for the head, then one or the other for a hind leg. If the deer span it is always in the same position. It did not take them long. Not saying it could happen to a cow, but I could see it would be very possible.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

why aint ya fgured out whats gittin em by the tracks...

leave some poison outside where the attacks are happening. stuff a chicken or sprinkle some rat poison on some big thigh bones or the hip bones. if yer worried bout indescriminate killing hang it from a tree where a cat or yote will jump for it but the coons and such cant reach

snares work good..as do leg traps..

are they killing the cows? or just wounding them. how long they dead til ya find em?

I don't think our greenie-weenie state allows poisons. There was, in the last couple of weeks, a big training seminar at Ellensburg for DFW officers on how to identify which predator attacked/killed an animal. See if anyone from DFW near you went to that training.

 

[ousoonerfan22]

Do you know anybody that likes to predator call? If not put up a flyer at the local sporting goods and feed stores I'm sure someone out there would enjoy having a place to hunt.
Set traps using a live rooster in a cage for bait or a beaver carcass for bait. At one of the local ranches here one employee caught several coyotes and bobcats setting traps under a beaver carcass.

I agree with others here about dogs doing the damage.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Lawnviewfarm - Be careful what advice you take from non-WA residents. Before you set any traps, check with DFW to see if you have to be permitted. The fish cops frown on bobcats and lynx and other critters getting caught in a trap intended for something else. If coyotes are the problem, it's okay in WA to use calls, and it's okay to shoot them (you need a hunting license). However, if it's a big cat, I don't think you can bait them in, and unless you catch them in the act of predation, you'll have to go buy a license and tag to shoot ONE.

 

[lawnviewfarm]

Kathie in Thorp,

Thanks!! The below is taken from the WDFW web site. Have you heard otherwise?

http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/cougars.html#status:

Cougars are classified as game animals and an open season and a hunting license are required to hunt them (WAC 232-12-007). A property owner or the owner’s immediate family, employee, or tenant may kill a cougar on that property if it is damaging domestic animals (RCW 77.36.030). No permit is required.

The killing of a cougar in self-defense, or defense of another, should be reasonable and justified. A person taking such action must have reasonable belief that the cougar poses a threat of serious physical harm, that this harm is imminent, and the action is the only reasonable available means to prevent that harm.

The body of any cougar, whether taken under the direct authority of RCW 77.36.030, or for the protection of a person, remains the property of the state and must be turned over to the Department of Fish and Wildlife immediately.

Dieselbeef,

I'll post a couple of pics of one 'kill' when I get home this evening.

--Marc

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Couple of longhorn cows will help you with your problem. Most of them old longhorn cows will do battle with about any varmit.