Poop questions

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Highpoint

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Does anyone else use the poop app and if so can you figure out the way to tell good forage. Most look to be stacked. Never thought I would be asking such a question but appears many people can tell since knowledge for years.
 
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Highpoint

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Thank you as I read now about lactating cows and they require more protein. The suggestion was protein blocks which I will study. If ok I will post another picture as some of the poop doesn't stack really looks more broken up.
 
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Highpoint

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This is why this site is so helpful to a cattle care giver like me. I have been adding molasses to a side water container with Apple cider vinegar. This is what research from OSU "When cows ingest the simple sugars in molasses, it creates a lowered rumen pH that can lead to digestive disruption, health risks and economic disadvantages (Oklahoma State University study). Called the Negative Associative Effect, this decrease in rumen pH inhibits the optimal microbial population in ruminant digestive systems when they're fed forages. This can create health problems and cause the animals to eat greater amounts of forage or hay, in order to buffer their rumen pH back up."

You just saved me time and money. Thank you again. I'll know soon if removing this will work.
 

snoopdog

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My wife used to use vinegar in the water medicater of chicken houses when they had a loose stool. Two different digestive systems but Iimagine the same principle, someone can correct me if I'm wrong .
 

TexasBred

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Highpoint":2sw9pyll said:
This is why this site is so helpful to a cattle care giver like me. I have been adding molasses to a side water container with Apple cider vinegar. This is what research from OSU "When cows ingest the simple sugars in molasses, it creates a lowered rumen pH that can lead to digestive disruption, health risks and economic disadvantages (Oklahoma State University study). Called the Negative Associative Effect, this decrease in rumen pH inhibits the optimal microbial population in ruminant digestive systems when they're fed forages. This can create health problems and cause the animals to eat greater amounts of forage or hay, in order to buffer their rumen pH back up."

You just saved me time and money. Thank you again. I'll know soon if removing this will work.

Are your cattle grazing or eating hay?? Either way it appears much of it is undigestible and little more than filler. Rumen ph should not be a problem on a forage based diet. Personally (and just my opinion) you're wasting a lot of money feeding all of this vinegar, molasses and other stuff when you really don't know what the problem is that you are attacking. Get some higher quality roughage and/or supplement the cow with some additional protein, step back and watch.
 

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Highpoint":1yfudk5v said:


Does anyone else use the poop app and if so can you figure out the way to tell good forage. Most look to be stacked. Never thought I would be asking such a question but appears many people can tell since knowledge for years.


Is the orange thing that looks like a trailer tongue a poop app? How does it work?
 
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Highpoint

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callmefence":2h95yhxl said:
Highpoint":2h95yhxl said:


Does anyone else use the poop app and if so can you figure out the way to tell good forage. Most look to be stacked. Never thought I would be asking such a question but appears many people can tell since knowledge for years.


Is the orange thing that looks like a trailer tongue a poop app? How does it work?

It is a trailer hitch. Took picture between.

I saw on other site that it can tell you how your cattle are doing. The bull poop looked great but the cow poop did not and they are nursing. The cattle look great according to a couple of friends who have raised cattle but thanks to this site I realize molasses is not something to add to their diet. According to animal scientist at OSU it causes inbalace of ph for nursing cattle and they eat more to offset ph. I will give it a few days and if their poop does not return to normal I will find a good source of protein.
 
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Highpoint

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TexasBred":2modx7bz said:
Highpoint":2modx7bz said:
This is why this site is so helpful to a cattle care giver like me. I have been adding molasses to a side water container with Apple cider vinegar. This is what research from OSU "When cows ingest the simple sugars in molasses, it creates a lowered rumen pH that can lead to digestive disruption, health risks and economic disadvantages (Oklahoma State University study). Called the Negative Associative Effect, this decrease in rumen pH inhibits the optimal microbial population in ruminant digestive systems when they're fed forages. This can create health problems and cause the animals to eat greater amounts of forage or hay, in order to buffer their rumen pH back up."

You just saved me time and money. Thank you again. I'll know soon if removing this will work.

Are your cattle grazing or eating hay?? Either way it appears much of it is undigestible and little more than filler. Rumen ph should not be a problem on a forage based diet. Personally (and just my opinion) you're wasting a lot of money feeding all of this vinegar, molasses and other stuff when you really don't know what the problem is that you are attacking. Get some higher quality roughage and/or supplement the cow with some additional protein, step back and watch.

The cattle are grazing. I have been trying to give organic supplements instead of non-organic because of research showing calves gain around 50 lbs more here is the article. http://www.beefmagazine.com/nutrition/f ... 637d7077a6

The poop looked like picture two where it was good until I added the molasses. If ok I'll share another picture in day or so. The entire herd is around 200 and I am only taking care of 9. Experimenting so to speak. They will be bringing 90 calves over to ween next week and this will help me know how they are doing too. The cattle have some bluestem at the back Bermuda and crab. Then the rest is stuff they do not like as well.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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First, there was a 25# difference between organic & inorganic mineral. Organic minerals are trace minerals that are easily absorbed by their body. Organic trace minerals are about the only thing I purchase that has any organic anything (including people food).
 

TexasBred

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Highpoint":14eahkz1 said:
The cattle are grazing. I have been trying to give organic supplements instead of non-organic because of research showing calves gain around 50 lbs more here is the article. http://www.beefmagazine.com/nutrition/f ... 637d7077a6

The poop looked like picture two where it was good until I added the molasses. If ok I'll share another picture in day or so. The entire herd is around 200 and I am only taking care of 9. Experimenting so to speak. They will be bringing 90 calves over to ween next week and this will help me know how they are doing too. The cattle have some bluestem at the back Bermuda and crab. Then the rest is stuff they do not like as well.
Hightpoint I understand what you're trying to do but when the article uses the words "Organic" and "Inorganic" when talking about minerals I think you missed what they meant. Do a google search on oxides, sulfates and then do another on "chelates"....chelates are organic. THEN.....begin to supplement your cattle with a few pounds of good commercial feed every day. ;-)
 
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Highpoint

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TexasBred":16l6cjzw said:
Highpoint":16l6cjzw said:
The cattle are grazing. I have been trying to give organic supplements instead of non-organic because of research showing calves gain around 50 lbs more here is the article. http://www.beefmagazine.com/nutrition/f ... 637d7077a6

The poop looked like picture two where it was good until I added the molasses. If ok I'll share another picture in day or so. The entire herd is around 200 and I am only taking care of 9. Experimenting so to speak. They will be bringing 90 calves over to ween next week and this will help me know how they are doing too. The cattle have some bluestem at the back Bermuda and crab. Then the rest is stuff they do not like as well.
Hightpoint I understand what you're trying to do but when the article uses the words "Organic" and "Inorganic" when talking about minerals I think you missed what they meant. Do a google search on oxides, sulfates and then do another on "chelates"....chelates are organic. THEN.....begin to supplement your cattle with a few pounds of good commercial feed every day. ;-)
Thank you Texas Board that was good to know as the supplements I am using do chelate but are pennies compared to what is sold at coop. My tests have to include convince and costs but also insure good health. The poop I found today has gone back to a caked look but if protein is still needed I will include.
 

TexasBred

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Highpoint":7gsp0ary said:
Thank you Texas Board that was good to know as the supplements I am using do chelate but are pennies compared to what is sold at coop. My tests have to include convince and costs but also insure good health. The poop I found today has gone back to a caked look but if protein is still needed I will include.

Then you're really not serious about herd health nor profitability. A bag of mineral containing chelates cost only a very few dollars more than one containing nothing but oxides and sulfates and over 90% of the chelated minerals are acutally utilized by the cattle instead of simply passing through and ending up on the ground. That is waste !!!! But I guess you can justify it by saying you are improving the soil by adding rock aka, oxides. I dont think you really want help or opinions. Just wants someone to be a sympathetic sounding board for your so called research. Best wishes.
 
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Highpoint

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":1ya7hfsw said:
First, there was a 25# difference between organic & inorganic mineral. Organic minerals are trace minerals that are easily absorbed by their body. Organic trace minerals are about the only thing I purchase that has any organic anything (including people food).

I too use all organic for myself but the organic I am testing is a very small molecule and is made with biomass (plants) not rocks. It has the ability to chelate which I have understood to accentuate other items fed or increase.

I was thankful to see the research on molasses on ph - the same applies for most nutrients. When there is an imbalance it causes a negative effect. Example someone eats too many salted chips throws potassium out of balance and can cause leg cramps.

Still much to learn.
 
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Highpoint

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TexasBred":31x08fls said:
Highpoint":31x08fls said:
Thank you Texas Board that was good to know as the supplements I am using do chelate but are pennies compared to what is sold at coop. My tests have to include convince and costs but also insure good health. The poop I found today has gone back to a caked look but if protein is still needed I will include.

Then you're really not serious about herd health nor profitability. A bag of mineral containing chelates cost only a very few dollars more than one containing nothing but oxides and sulfates and over 90% of the chelated minerals are acutally utilized by the cattle instead of simply passing through and ending up on the ground. That is waste !!!! But I guess you can justify it by saying you are improving the soil by adding rock aka, oxides. I dont think you really want help or opinions. Just wants someone to be a sympathetic sounding board for your so called research. Best wishes.

I come at it in a different direction is all and yes I have read much than researched. Cattlemen talk in a different language which I am learning.

No I have not advocated adding rocks but I know plants absorb nutrients from them not as much cattle.

Also the board helped show me the imbalance which allowed me to research and correct. Not sure what offended you but have a great day anyway.
 

TCRanch

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snoopdog":e1owefhr said:
My wife used to use vinegar in the water medicater of chicken houses when they had a loose stool. Two different digestive systems but Iimagine the same principle, someone can correct me if I'm wrong .
My husband sucks down a tablespoon of unfiltered vinegar every morning. It's done wonders for his digestive system & he's off RX Prilosec. ;-) I don't doubt the principle (although no way, no how would I drink vinegar).

That said, adding my 2 cents: more protein. Cubes, a lick, alfalfa, brome . . .
 

TexasBred

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Highpoint":37cqxh0r said:
TexasBred":37cqxh0r said:
Highpoint":37cqxh0r said:
Thank you Texas Board that was good to know as the supplements I am using do chelate but are pennies compared to what is sold at coop. My tests have to include convince and costs but also insure good health. The poop I found today has gone back to a caked look but if protein is still needed I will include.

Then you're really not serious about herd health nor profitability. A bag of mineral containing chelates cost only a very few dollars more than one containing nothing but oxides and sulfates and over 90% of the chelated minerals are acutally utilized by the cattle instead of simply passing through and ending up on the ground. That is waste !!!! But I guess you can justify it by saying you are improving the soil by adding rock aka, oxides. I dont think you really want help or opinions. Just wants someone to be a sympathetic sounding board for your so called research. Best wishes.

I come at it in a different direction is all and yes I have read much than researched. Cattlemen talk in a different language which I am learning.

No I have not advocated adding rocks but I know plants absorb nutrients from them not as much cattle.

Also the board helped show me the imbalance which allowed me to research and correct. Not sure what offended you but have a great day anyway.
I used the word rocks because when you feed minerals that are "Oxides" as in Zinc Oxide,etc. they are little more than rocks. Very fine ground rocks but still rocks.
 
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Highpoint

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TexasBred":3jnsycv8 said:
Highpoint":3jnsycv8 said:
TexasBred":3jnsycv8 said:
Then you're really not serious about herd health nor profitability. A bag of mineral containing chelates cost only a very few dollars more than one containing nothing but oxides and sulfates and over 90% of the chelated minerals are acutally utilized by the cattle instead of simply passing through and ending up on the ground. That is waste !!!! But I guess you can justify it by saying you are improving the soil by adding rock aka, oxides. I dont think you really want help or opinions. Just wants someone to be a sympathetic sounding board for your so called research. Best wishes.

I come at it in a different direction is all and yes I have read much than researched. Cattlemen talk in a different language which I am learning.

No I have not advocated adding rocks but I know plants absorb nutrients from them not as much cattle.

Also the board helped show me the imbalance which allowed me to research and correct. Not sure what offended you but have a great day anyway.
I used the word rocks because when you feed minerals that are "Oxides" as in Zinc Oxide,etc. they are little more than rocks. Very fine ground rocks but still rocks.

Well I have not added rocks to soil or cattle diet. Certainly the dust coming from lime rocks on county road in front of pasture have made pasture greener. Not sure your argument here. Currently some feed companies are adding saw dust to feed and it is because saw dust have zinc, potassium, nitrogen, sulfur, trace minerals, ect. The product I am testing is liquified trees. AND by the way liquid in this form because of it being such a tiny molecule is showing to break down tau protein the the brains of humans with Alzhemers-a break through that if allowed to be seen by the US will make major impact as to date nothing has been shown to break down this or any other scar tissue until now. AND the boy who is having me test hasn't a clue.

When I hear organic I hear easily absorbed when I hear inorganic I hear could be flushed out and wasted like you indicated. You know like vitamins at Walmart or gnc that are not plant based. When I hear chelate I think attaches to others to increase. That one is still not totally clear and could take time.

I find very little about how cattle absorb nutrients in the stomachs. In humans most are absorbed in small intestines. If they have loose bowls the body absorbs very little. It would not matter how many vitamins you took.
this could be the case with cattle but not sure yet.

Do you think I have not learned by listening on this board? I listen than work to find out why. Why did the poop change and was it to the better. No I did not know that adding protein would offset molasses (sugar). For me it was just easier to stop feeding the molasses.

And probably to your surprise I am not convinced that totally grass fed is the healthiest. Example flax seed is high in omega 3 and causes great marbling. I read but until I try won't know.

Could it be we are both on the same page but attacking in different direction.
 

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