Pneumonia

[Arizonasteer]

Need any advice.. I have a few head of cattle and they are both pretty sick with what I was told is Pneumonia. They are both foaming at the mouth and the year old heifer has a bad case of diarrhea while the calf does not. The calf is loosing a significant amount of its hide (near its head and snout) but has strong appetite where the heifer does not have much of an appitite. I was told that it was infected with Pneumonia so I gave them both heavy doeses of Penicillin over a week.

The symptoms above are after giving them the Penicillin. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[larryshoat]

The pen won't do it. You need a good antibiotic, Draxin, Baytril, Nuflor or Resflor, Zactran any one of those is far better than pen. If they haven't been vaccinated they need to be.

Larry

 

[Gale Seddon]

If they haven't been vaccinated they need to be.

Larry

Larry, I think you're right about the antibiotics, but believe he might want to hold off on vaccinating until they've recovered from whatever ails them. Would you agree?

 

[slick4591]

The calf is loosing a significant amount of its hide (near its head and snout) but has strong appetite where the heifer does not have much of an appitite.

What Larry said. But, I'm confused about about loosing hide. Neither of my two did that.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I'd hit them with both Nuflour and Banamine immediately after isolating them from the rest of the herd. This can spread and it can spread quick. Either could drop dead yielding a complete financial loss at any point. All it takes is a respiratory blockage and it does not have to be a complete blockage. If you ever have one die in front of you this becomes extremely apparent.

 

[Arizonasteer]

Thanks for all the help.. I did talk to a rancher and he told me they have Coccidia and to use Corid to treat it. He said that Coccidia destroys the immune system thus allowing them to get Pneumonia. What are your thoughts on that and should I still use the antibiotic suggested? Thank you again.

 

[wbvs58]

I would be suspicious of them having licked something irritant, burning their tongue and mouth and the skin around muzzle of the calf. Have a look inside with a torch, pull the tongue out and look for ulcerations, you might need a rag to grab it as sounds like covered saliva.
Ken

 

[hillsdown]

I would be suspicious of them having licked something irritant, burning their tongue and mouth and the skin around muzzle of the calf. Have a look inside with a torch, pull the tongue out and look for ulcerations, you might need a rag to grab it as sounds like covered saliva.
Ken

Ken, are not those symptoms sometimes indicative of BVD ? I would possibly be thinking of ear notching the dams to see if they are perhaps PI as well ???

 

[Gale Seddon]

Arizonasteer, have you consulted a vet or had one out to see these animals?

 

[James T]

As hillsdown has suggested, Pneumonia can be the result of an underlying problem such as BRSV, IBR, Mycoplasma...some which are unaffected by certain antibiotics. Even if an antibiotic is warranted, which one? They are not all the same! Even how a drug is administered can make a difference. I would consider Gale's advice---> get a vet out there, eliminate the problem to make sure your other cattle don't get infected. A small price to pay in comparison to your potential losses and you get to learn in the process :D !

 

[expensive hobby]

Need any advice.. I have a few head of cattle and they are both pretty sick with what I was told is Pneumonia.

I think that Arizonasteer only has 2 head. So infecting other animals may not be a problem, unless your neighbors have animals too. Just curious, when and where did you buy your stock? Did you by chance get them at a sale barn, or for a "good price?"

 

[wbvs58]

I would be suspicious of them having licked something irritant, burning their tongue and mouth and the skin around muzzle of the calf. Have a look inside with a torch, pull the tongue out and look for ulcerations, you might need a rag to grab it as sounds like covered saliva.
Ken

Ken, are not those symptoms sometimes indicative of BVD ? I would possibly be thinking of ear notching the dams to see if they are perhaps PI as well ???

HD, BVD does not really have many symptoms of its own but borrows them from what ever condition that the animal gets as a result of being immunosuppressed. You are right though, it is unusual for 2 animals to come down with pneumonia simultaneously (100% of herd presumably) without some predisposing cause like BVD.
In this case though, I strongly suspect the cause to be something the pair have got into, something caustic, that has taken the lining off inside their mouth as well as their hide and in the heifers case irritated the gut, hence the diarhoea.
As Gayle suggested get it checked out by a vet if you can't handle the animals yourself.
Ken

 

[backhoeboogie]

I would be suspicious of them having licked something irritant, burning their tongue and mouth and the skin around muzzle of the calf. Have a look inside with a torch, pull the tongue out and look for ulcerations, you might need a rag to grab it as sounds like covered saliva.
Ken

Ken, are not those symptoms sometimes indicative of BVD ? I would possibly be thinking of ear notching the dams to see if they are perhaps PI as well ???

HD, BVD does not really have many symptoms of its own but borrows them from what ever condition that the animal gets as a result of being immunosuppressed. You are right though, it is unusual for 2 animals to come down with pneumonia simultaneously (100% of herd presumably) without some predisposing cause like BVD.
In this case though, I strongly suspect the cause to be something the pair have got into, something caustic, that has taken the lining off inside their mouth as well as their hide and in the heifers case irritated the gut, hence the diarhoea.
As Gayle suggested get it checked out by a vet if you can't handle the animals yourself.
Ken

If they have gotten in to something caustic, a shot of thiamine might help. That is what an old cattle vet recommended once. I tried it and it seemed to help.

 

[Gale Seddon]

Thanks for all the help.. I did talk to a rancher and he told me they have Coccidia and to use Corid to treat it. He said that Coccidia destroys the immune system thus allowing them to get Pneumonia. What are your thoughts on that and should I still use the antibiotic suggested? Thank you again.

Arizona, did your rancher friend do a fecal test to identify the coccidia or did he just see loose manure? (I ask because I have been treating 3 weanlings for it with Corid.)

I can't answer your question about using Corid in conjunction with antibiotics. Loose manure could be a symptom of something else going on as well, but don't ask me what. Getting veterinary advice over the internet isn't the most reliable thing to do when you have a confusing situation, so I really do think you should have a vet examine these animals and treat them appropriately. Yes, it's money out of your pocket, but I would consider it money well spent!

 

[Arizonasteer]

Bottom line I agree that I need to get a vet out to look a them both. Problem is I live in a area that only has horses and any cattle vet is at least 50 miles away. It will be money well spent.

Many thanks for all the help and when the vet comes out I will give an update. By the way, the calf is loosing most of its skin and I was told that was a result of a high fever and high dosage of Penicillin. That calf has a great appitite now and is doing well. The Heifer is just a mess and is foaming blood now.

 

[Gale Seddon]

Oh dear, does not sound good at all. They've been sick for over a week. I hope you've had them isolated from your other cattle. Whatever they've got going on, you DO need a vet though, sadly, it sounds as if it may be too late for the heifer. Please do post whatever you learn about these two, will you?

 

[cow pollinater]

Since you used penicilin, I'm assuming that you don't have a perscription for the good stuff??? If that's the case then try sulfamethazine boluses. They are over the counter and will do alot better job on both coccidiosis and pneumonia than the pen will.

 

[larryshoat]

There are some over the counter antibiotics that can work fairly well in cattle if you can't get cooperation from a vet to get good medicine. If in that situation I would use spectinamycin (scour halt) and use Tylan 200 with it, LS50 is decent, lincomix 300 is another that can be used in conjuction with the spectin. This is all off label and probably illegal for you, I'm not recommending any of this I'm just posting information. Kind of a catch 22, a vet is probably not going to mess with it, so where does that leave you? Possibly contact your state vet and ask what they would do in your situation.

Larry

 

[raykour]

This does not sound like pneumonia, it sounds like some sort of toxicity with the sloughing of skin and the heifer bleeding from the mouth or nose. Bloody foam is an advanced stage of anaphylaxis. I am afraid we will hear that this heifer has died.