Pinebank Waigroup 41/97

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Richnm

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What can someone tell me about Pinebank Waigroup 41/97? He looks massive. I was thinking of using him on a heifer I have that's obese and wide , her belly is only about a foot off the ground, all she gets is hay the same as the rest of the cows, but she is twice as fat. She has, Ext, New Design, OCC, Final answer , Leachman Saugahatchee. Thanks
 
I am surprised you can still get semen on him. He was born in 1997 and was one of several bulls from New Zealand that had semen available in the US many years ago. EPDs were unimpressive by American standards, so they just never really caught on here, but they were very attractive cattle in my opinion. They have that classic Angus look from back before carcass took over as the primary goal of most Angus seed-stock producers, sometimes at the expense of all other qualities.

Diamond D Angus from Valier Montana used him and had calves from 2006 to 2009. I would not be surprised to learn they still have 41/97 cows in their herd. They must have been pleased because they used several of those sons on their own cattle and later purchased another son, HAR Pinebank 443, and currently have semen available on him. Most of those bulls were sold to Canada and one had pretty heavy usage up there. DDA Pinebank 50H. Check out Diamond D's website and give them a call. They should be able to tell you how he produced.
 
Dan is a CT member and has used him. He can tell you a lot as he sells the Pinebank semen. I'll roust him out!
 
I was intrigued that he was 5.1 frame and 3,100 pounds. That's more massive than Charlo
 
I'm not sure he ever hit 3000k, but he was massive. Willie could testify to actual weight. I believe 2600lbs is closer to the truth. 41/97 should add good feet, fertility, and grass efficiency in a moderate frame. They mature early, have good testicles, and good blend of fleshing ease and muscle. I have seen many daughters and sons at different locations and they are deep barreled and wide snouted. Udders are acceptable but not as fine teated as EXT or Alap of Wye daughters. Coat quality is good enough for most environments but some of them don't work in the intense heat. There is so much line breeding behind his pedigree that you should get a consistent crop. Not much 41/97 semen left, but there are some great sons to use. Mark Deboo's 202 son and Black Queen's 212 son are quite impressive. Both were bred by Josh Freiberger (Hague Angus Ranch) in Alliance, NE. Josh has as impressive a bull battery as anywhere I've ever been. I think they like that hard grass out there.
 
jdg said:
I'm not sure he ever hit 3000k, but he was massive. Willie could testify to actual weight. I believe 2600lbs is closer to the truth. 41/97 should add good feet, fertility, and grass efficiency in a moderate frame. They mature early, have good testicles, and good blend of fleshing ease and muscle. I have seen many daughters and sons at different locations and they are deep barreled and wide snouted. Udders are acceptable but not as fine teated as EXT or Alap of Wye daughters. Coat quality is good enough for most environments but some of them don't work in the intense heat. There is so much line breeding behind his pedigree that you should get a consistent crop. Not much 41/97 semen left, but there are some great sons to use. Mark Deboo's 202 son and Black Queen's 212 son are quite impressive. Both were bred by Josh Freiberger (Hague Angus Ranch) in Alliance, NE. Josh has as impressive a bull battery as anywhere I've ever been. I think they like that hard grass out there.
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I have several Pinebank bulls (I sold them) and several first calf heifers. I do think they do very well (grow fast) on grass or sorghum. The bulls seemed to get somewhat muscle bound in the rear quarter when they are grain fed. The bulls seemed a bit stiff legged in hips and rear legs. I probably made a mistake feeding them grain. They are probably better on grass (winter/spring rye) only. The first calf heifers are excellent: excellent udders, smaller frame and big ribbed. The structure would indicate very "easy keeping". The $ EN edps are very high. Their calves are about 3 month old. I would expect their weaned calves to be quite large (heavy) compared to weight of the mothers.
 
SA Angus said:
I have several Pinebank bulls (I sold them) and several first calf heifers. I do think they do very well (grow fast) on grass or sorghum. The bulls seemed to get somewhat muscle bound in the rear quarter when they are grain fed. The bulls seemed a bit stiff legged in hips and rear legs. I probably made a mistake feeding them grain. They are probably better on grass (winter/spring rye) only. The first calf heifers are excellent: excellent udders, smaller frame and big ribbed. The structure would indicate very "easy keeping". The $ EN edps are very high. Their calves are about 3 month old. I would expect their weaned calves to be quite large (heavy) compared to weight of the mothers.
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SA....tell me about muscle bound? Was this what created what you describe as stiff legged in hips and rear legs? And is this the reason you got rid of the bulls? What did you cross the bulls with?
 
It was not a major issue. They can work - no problem. They were a bit stiff. I can only guess that we should have fed them less grain - maybe only have them on grass.
 
If they are not tracking properly it is a shift in the skeleton to length versus height. It is genetically a selectable trait. It is not something I want but I see a number of cattle sold or for sale that are incorrect. Much like the discussions in other threads of "what bull will correct ____" the question I want to know is "what bulls, lines and sources brought in poor traits?". Too much fluff in the registered world, too much follow the leader and too much unsaid.
 
76 Bar said:
That's a rarely used term these days. Never met a good headed wide mouthed cow that fell short of the mark.
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My deceased neighbor claimed he could tell if a bull was any good if he could see it's head on the trailer by how wide he was between the eyes. Hogs are the same, those narrow snouted bat eared hogs never grew like the wide headed ones.
 
BFE said:
My deceased neighbor claimed he could tell if a bull was any good if he could see it's head on the trailer by how wide he was between the eyes. Hogs are the same, those narrow snouted bat eared hogs never grew like the wide headed ones.
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Temple Grandin had observation data on bull fertility (or lack of) via a view of the head and whorl patterns a few years ago. That got buried quickly. It was too easy, I guess.
 

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