Phenotype vs Genotype

[J. T.]

As the breeders of Brahman influenced breeds "clean up" the cattle by breeding for less hide (sheath, dewlap) does that negatively affect the ability to disapate heat. The theory is that the excessive leather allows for more surface area for the blood to cool. In short, if it no longer looks like a Brahman, will it retain Brahman traits of heat and insect tolerance? I've seen some Brangus cattle that have virtually no sheath or navel flap and the dewlap has been reduced to the type found on Bos taurus cattle. So does phenotype have an effect on these breeds' performance even though, genotypically speaking, they possess a high percentage of Brahman ancestry?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

well breeding more brahman out of them the more the heat tolerance declines the more i breed out the less insect tolerant to. the heat part in my area of ala. aint as bad . but the brangus and black simbrah have a harder time with the flies i wonder why does the black hide attract 3 of 4 times the flies that the tan and red .is it color or the blood closer to the surface too help cool or what because other than color thats the only difference

 

[Frankie]

As the breeders of Brahman influenced breeds "clean up" the cattle by breeding for less hide (sheath, dewlap) does that negatively affect the ability to disapate heat. The theory is that the excessive leather allows for more surface area for the blood to cool. In short, if it no longer looks like a Brahman, will it retain Brahman traits of heat and insect tolerance? I've seen some Brangus cattle that have virtually no sheath or navel flap and the dewlap has been reduced to the type found on Bos taurus cattle. So does phenotype have an effect on these breeds' performance even though, genotypically speaking, they possess a high percentage of Brahman ancestry?

I think this is an interesting question and wished you had got more answers from people.

It only makes sense to me that as we breed out the Brahman traits, big ears, dewlap, etc., we're breeding out some of the heat tolerance. Isn't it those traits that make them heat tolerant?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

well too me if your gonna breed these traits out of them why have the dam things in the first place. with the right management you can have both 1/4 too 3/8 brahman influence is a good combo in my area. half 50/50 moma around the gulf will get you a good marketable calf bred too a good strait bred bull. you dont cut your nose off too spite your face you can get in trouble quick going the wrong direction. ill be the first too admit that some off the brahman influence needs too be cleaned up in the right area's not too take away their strong suits though. i think the reason he has not had many replies it this is a self explainatory question

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

JT, its just a snippet, but the item under Anatomical Differences in the recent paper cited below may be of some interest to you (the brief item about about surgical removal of hump and dewlap and the lack of effect on thermoregularity):

http://www.bifconference.com/bif2006/pdfs/Williams.pdf


Of course, 50% to 3/8 bos indicus blooded composites have been pretty common or standard down south for a long time. It has been a long time since I read research summaries of the development of Brangus down at Jeanerette, La. and elsewhere but the research at the time obviously settled on 3/8 as the apparently most desirable percentage of bos indicus blood (same as with King Ranch with their Gerts, or Adams Ranch & Braford). But I think it is pretty interesting to see the King Ranch (among others) going to a a 3/16 Brahman blood animal. Very harsh environment, but they have apparently concluded that, on balance, if they give up something in heat or parasite tolerance by reducing the Brahman content (and I'm only assuming they give up some )they pick up more in the way of carcass value. One would hope that the 3/16th indicus influenced calves, or especially 3/32 on the next cross, would readily meet the requirements of packers and tapeworms. ;-)

 

[Beefy]

As the breeders of Brahman influenced breeds "clean up" the cattle by breeding for less hide (sheath, dewlap) does that negatively affect the ability to disapate heat. The theory is that the excessive leather allows for more surface area for the blood to cool. In short, if it no longer looks like a Brahman, will it retain Brahman traits of heat and insect tolerance? I've seen some Brangus cattle that have virtually no sheath or navel flap and the dewlap has been reduced to the type found on Bos taurus cattle. So does phenotype have an effect on these breeds' performance even though, genotypically speaking, they possess a high percentage of Brahman ancestry?

I think this is an interesting question and wished you had got more answers from people.

It only makes sense to me that as we breed out the Brahman traits, big ears, dewlap, etc., we're breeding out some of the heat tolerance. Isn't it those traits that make them heat tolerant?

Probably would have gotten more responses with a more descriptive title. i've been skipping over this one til now. got bored enough to look at it. my answer is "beats me" but it makes sense what y'all are saying.

 

[andybob]

The African Sanga cattleare extremly heat tolerant without the 'loose' skin,there is no reason why a 'tight' skinned Brahman selected for performance within the hot environment shouldn't perform similarly.
I personally prefer to just use the Sanga type as represented by the Tuli breed.

 

[Caustic Burno]

It has always amazed me at the crap that cattlemen put out about breeds Angus can't be kept in a fence, Brammers are bad meat, Herefords get pinkeye all cattle get pinkeye, pallet head Chars, comes from the late sixties, what a joke.

There is no bad cattle just poor cattlemen and management.
Thank goodness we don't have one breed that fits all and all enviroments.
When you start breeding out what brought you to the dance you can bet you are losing something.

 

[D.R. Cattle]

JT, its just a snippet, but the item under Anatomical Differences in the recent paper cited below may be of some interest to you (the brief item about about surgical removal of hump and dewlap and the lack of effect on thermoregularity):

http://www.bifconference.com/bif2006/pdfs/Williams.pdf


Of course, 50% to 3/8 bos indicus blooded composites have been pretty common or standard down south for a long time. It has been a long time since I read research summaries of the development of Brangus down at Jeanerette, La. and elsewhere but the research at the time obviously settled on 3/8 as the apparently most desirable percentage of bos indicus blood (same as with King Ranch with their Gerts, or Adams Ranch & Braford). But I think it is pretty interesting to see the King Ranch (among others) going to a a 3/16 Brahman blood animal. Very harsh environment, but they have apparently concluded that, on balance, if they give up something in heat or parasite tolerance by reducing the Brahman content (and I'm only assuming they give up some )they pick up more in the way of carcass value. One would hope that the 3/16th indicus influenced calves, or especially 3/32 on the next cross, would readily meet the requirements of packers and tapeworms. ;-)

Mr Adams started a 3/16 composite bloodline several years back also. Based on Braford and cut with Red Angus and Gelbs. They're nice looking cattle but I haven't seen or heard how well they perform yet.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

It has always amazed me at the crap that cattlemen put out about breeds Angus can't be kept in a fence, Brammers are bad meat, Herefrords get pinkeye all cattle get pinkeye, pallet head Chars, comes from the late sixties, what a joke.

There is no bad cattle just poor cattlemen and management.
Thank goodness we don't have one breed that fits all and all enviroments.
When you start breeding out what brought you to the dance you can bet you are losing something.

your dam right if you got too breed out the best thing that can help you grow cattle succesfuly in a area why the he!! mess with it in the first place .