Rookie Rancher
Active member
I'm picking my first bull and I'd love some opinions on this bull's phenotype.
Thanks for your help! :tiphat:
Thanks for your help! :tiphat:
Phenotype Evaluation please!
- Thread starter Rookie Rancher
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Avalon
Well-known member
What are you wanting to use him for? What is his name or reg #. I personally do not like him. I like more balance and a bit more butt. If I were a bettin man I'd say he mainly a carcass bull. Are you wanting to raise cattle to sell on the grid?
Rookie Rancher
Active member
He's Gelbvieh, Carolina Fortune, reg # 687061 . I'd be mating him to purebred angus heifers out of Gridmaker and Plowman. I plan on keeping all heifers and finishing all steers to sell direct to local health nuts by the quarter or half. Once the heifers are old enough to breed, I'd like to use a third breed as terminal sire on them. I havn't decided which terminal breed yet. I've got lots of time.
Here's a link to his EPDs. I like the numbers, but admitedly I'm a rookie at evaluating phenotype. Keep the opinions coming.
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/gelbvieh.asp?CodTouro=137GV2930
Here's a link to his EPDs. I like the numbers, but admitedly I'm a rookie at evaluating phenotype. Keep the opinions coming.
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/gelbvieh.asp?CodTouro=137GV2930
I've thought of using him, but I would use him as a terminal bull. The WW and YW weights would make his daughters pretty darn big as mature cows. Generally our F1s turn out larger then either of the parents.
Ozraptor
Well-known member
dun":3l0m43xh said:
Gotta love hybrid vigor
JR
badroute
Well-known member
Not trying to be an a-hole or anything, but in my opinion that bull looks terrible. I have far better looking bulls in my bull pasture and I'm only a commercial man. Maybe it's a bad picture but I'd probably say this bull made the lineup on numbers and numbers only. Phenotypically this bull has very little to add to the beef industry. Just my 2 cents.
Horseless
Well-known member
There has to better bulls out there! It has been a few years since I looked at Gelbvieh, but at that time they had a long way to go with the black side of things. The reds still were better in my books. That reminds of a picture of an angus bull I seen recently that someone was selling semen on. In fact it might be on this site of cattle today under semem. It is one sad looking bull.
Horseless
Well-known member
I found the Bull that I was mentioning above. It is under the index of "Cattle Today" under semen. I'll try put the link here: http://sementank.com/hoodrichman724.htm I have not done any research on him, but the picture sure scares me.
Green Creek
Well-known member
Rather than saying I don't like him, etc. Why doesn't someone evaluate him on composition in detail so it makes sense to someone trying to select a bull as an amateur. Isn't that what he is asking?
Rookie Rancher
Active member
Green Creek":1pb1rdgn said:
Yes! I'm here to learn. I'm glad folks are giving their opinions, but REASONS for those opinions would sure help me a lot more.
Avalon
Well-known member
Ok, he is is most likley structurally sound or ABS would not use him. He appears to have the right kind of rear leg. Not to posty and not to much turn. with that said. I prefer a bull with a bit more balance to him. For me he is lacking in the hind quarters and seems to be to heavy fronted with to much leather under his neck and jaw. If you are looking at ABS's Gelviehs I like GRU Good stuff/ Tabasco / LCC Hybrid. This is of course from a phenotypic evaluation on the computer only. Note the difference in the shape of fortune and the 3 bulls i selected. If my main objective were to sell on the grid, I might choose fortune for his carcass tabulations. But for what you are doing I would look for something that had a bit more look and focus primarily on weaning and yearling weights when it comes to EPD's.
You can't go wrong with this bull his EPD'S are awesome, and his sire is a pretty good one also. The JBOB prefix is a very good measuring stick to get going in the Gelbvieh world. Pheo type he is great for angus cross making those balancers.
Hate to disagree with Double V but, we just went thru 3 yrs of pulling calve out of a Gelbvieh bull with much more balanced confirmation. Thei bull kinda resembles him only with a much worse rear end. I believe you will find that those shoulders don't come thru the birth canal very well at all. To me he is also kinda big headed. Don't be fooled by calving ease numbers based on birth weight. We never had a calf over 85lbs in 3 yrs and we pulled every calf out of every heifer for that time frame. Some Dead some Alive. He might make a terminal sire on your older crossbred cows but I don't like him for a F-1 cross. We also were having 6 to 8 yr old cows paralized birthing 80lb calves with that Bucket headed SOB. Just my 2cents.
PS you would probably be better off breeding your heifers to a horned hereford bull anf getting some good baldies then breeding them to a continental of some kind
PS you would probably be better off breeding your heifers to a horned hereford bull anf getting some good baldies then breeding them to a continental of some kind
In the 5 years of raising registered Gelbvieh's I haven't had to pull a calf, we have avery high brith rate on the farm, could see me and i can get you into a safe,low BW bull that will be homo black and homo polled. You too will be able to go to sleep not worrying about cows calving. I would disagree with you there are some gelbvieh bulls out there that throw 90lbs plus calves and not every cow can handle that.
Horseless
Well-known member
Maybe the picture does not give him enough credit. I would question why is he so gant looking? From what I see he does not have much of a butt. Now from my own experience with " black" Gelbvieh which has been several years back, they were hard to keep around. The cows were not easy fleshing. Back then I didn't keep track of how they fed out in the feedlot. But the reds seemed to hold up better, were good milkers and had gentle disposition. My first impression at looking at the picture was not positive and that maybe a fault of ABS and the picture they chose. If you have studied all other aspects of this bull, he may fit your own personal needs.
perhaps I will show my Gelbvieh ignorance here, but I have always liked this bull:
http://genex.crinet.com/addedattraction ... 45&lang=EN
He would probably make a better terminal sire as well though.
http://genex.crinet.com/addedattraction ... 45&lang=EN
He would probably make a better terminal sire as well though.
I would be a little hessitant to use him on British heifers. I'm not really up on the Gelbvieh breed but I would search more of a calving ease bull. You going to increase BW from the heterosis, I would look at Carolina Rock"n 157GV1700 AGA 794476 or somthing along these lines. Kinda hard to reccomend somthing without seeing the heifers. To actually answer your question I thing Carolina Fortune is a little light on the hind end, I would question his front possibly being a bit blocky for use on heifers and a bit to heavy for BW. He is a good bull mated to the right cows but I wouldn't consider him a true heifer bull.
novatech
Well-known member
Phenotype? He looks as if he is a buffalo, no butt.
As Mike said, carcass bull.
I posted this site on the beginners board for questions exactly like this one. http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewto ... =8&t=44090
As Mike said, carcass bull.
I posted this site on the beginners board for questions exactly like this one. http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewto ... =8&t=44090
