Phenotype Evaluation please!

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Rookie Rancher

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novatech":2koybsr5 said:
http://genex.crinet.com/addedattraction ... 45&lang=EN
Now that's one heck of a bull. I like him a lot.

I like the look of this bull too, unfortunately he's not a calving ease bull for my heifers.

Any other suggestions for moderate framed, heavy milking, growthy black gelbvieh with great phenotype to use on heifers :?:
 

double v

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Have you looked at RTC Atlas 712G the always popular FHG VVFG Flying H Exclusive or MLH Goldrush Visa J40 or my bull VJQM VV's Jugernaut This might help you in your Pheno type search
 

3waycross

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Rookie Rancher":32ay59uv said:
novatech":32ay59uv said:
http://genex.crinet.com/addedattraction ... 45&lang=EN
Now that's one heck of a bull. I like him a lot.

I like the look of this bull too, unfortunately he's not a calving ease bull for my heifers.

Any other suggestions for moderate framed, heavy milking, growthy black gelbvieh with great phenotype to use on heifers :?:

Try Harb Pendleton 765 he has great epds for Calving ease and he's a meat machine
 

deenranch

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I am a charolais man, but everyone out there is facinated with Angus Certified beef. You will make more $ from city folk selling CAB. Watch out for the Char x's. They are on their way to stardom!
 

smuff76

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For keeping replacements and selling steers I would have to say Atlas at the moment without ever seeing what he would be bred to. He has good maternal # and muscle.
 

JMichal

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3waycross":hxkqupxj said:
Hate to disagree with Double V but, we just went thru 3 yrs of pulling calve out of a Gelbvieh bull with much more balanced confirmation. Thei bull kinda resembles him only with a much worse rear end. I believe you will find that those shoulders don't come thru the birth canal very well at all. To me he is also kinda big headed. Don't be fooled by calving ease numbers based on birth weight. We never had a calf over 85lbs in 3 yrs and we pulled every calf out of every heifer for that time frame. Some Dead some Alive. He might make a terminal sire on your older crossbred cows but I don't like him for a F-1 cross. We also were having 6 to 8 yr old cows paralized birthing 80lb calves with that Bucket headed SOB. Just my 2cents.

PS you would probably be better off breeding your heifers to a horned hereford bull anf getting some good baldies then breeding them to a continental of some kind

Maybe you have a cow problem. I have angus with a touch of simmental and have been breeding them to Gelbviev bulls for 3 years. Also have some registered Gelbvieh recently cows. I have not pulled a calf in over 10 years.
 

JMichal

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smuff76":2z7cfznz said:
perhaps I will show my Gelbvieh ignorance here, but I have always liked this bull:

http://genex.crinet.com/addedattraction ... 45&lang=EN

He would probably make a better terminal sire as well though.

Quick look and I like him. I have some Carolina Fortune daughters and they make very good cows. He also leads the Breed in many traits including Carcass Value. After all pretty is what pretty does. It all boils down to what we can eat, and if you can't eat em why have em?

I've seen this bull and it is a bad picture.
 

3waycross

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JMichal":31rlge51 said:
3waycross":31rlge51 said:
Hate to disagree with Double V but, we just went thru 3 yrs of pulling calve out of a Gelbvieh bull with much more balanced confirmation. Thei bull kinda resembles him only with a much worse rear end. I believe you will find that those shoulders don't come thru the birth canal very well at all. To me he is also kinda big headed. Don't be fooled by calving ease numbers based on birth weight. We never had a calf over 85lbs in 3 yrs and we pulled every calf out of every heifer for that time frame. Some Dead some Alive. He might make a terminal sire on your older crossbred cows but I don't like him for a F-1 cross. We also were having 6 to 8 yr old cows paralized birthing 80lb calves with that Bucket headed SOB. Just my 2cents.

PS you would probably be better off breeding your heifers to a horned hereford bull anf getting some good baldies then breeding them to a continental of some kind

Maybe you have a cow problem. I have angus with a touch of simmental and have been breeding them to Gelbviev bulls for 3 years. Also have some registered Gelbvieh recently cows. I have not pulled a calf in over 10 years.


And maybe not. If he is paralizing 5 and 6 yr old 1400lb cows with 85lb calves that's not a cow problem.

I'm kinda amazed about something. How is it that everybody is looking for calving ease bulls and nobody wants to talk about having pulled any calves. Especially the seedstock breeders. Just a thought!
 

JMichal

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3waycross":18td2jws said:
JMichal":18td2jws said:
3waycross":18td2jws said:
Hate to disagree with Double V but, we just went thru 3 yrs of pulling calve out of a Gelbvieh bull with much more balanced confirmation. Thei bull kinda resembles him only with a much worse rear end. I believe you will find that those shoulders don't come thru the birth canal very well at all. To me he is also kinda big headed. Don't be fooled by calving ease numbers based on birth weight. We never had a calf over 85lbs in 3 yrs and we pulled every calf out of every heifer for that time frame. Some Dead some Alive. He might make a terminal sire on your older crossbred cows but I don't like him for a F-1 cross. We also were having 6 to 8 yr old cows paralized birthing 80lb calves with that Bucket headed SOB. Just my 2cents.

PS you would probably be better off breeding your heifers to a horned hereford bull anf getting some good baldies then breeding them to a continental of some kind

Maybe you have a cow problem. I have angus with a touch of simmental and have been breeding them to Gelbviev bulls for 3 years. Also have some registered Gelbvieh recently cows. I have not pulled a calf in over 10 years.


And maybe not. If he is paralizing 5 and 6 yr old 1400lb cows with 85lb calves that's not a cow problem.

I'm kinda amazed about something. How is it that everybody is looking for calving ease bulls and nobody wants to talk about having pulled any calves. Especially the seedstock breeders. Just a thought!

I guess you don't need to talk about pulling calves if you don't pull em. Thats why we use calving ease bulls. 3waycross I would like to see the registration # on your Gelbveih bull so I can pull up his info. Need to know what the problem was and who to stay away from.
 

3waycross

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JMichael
I wish I could help you with that number but the papers went with the bull, and since we wern't registering his calves it's not written down anywhere that I know of. If I come across it I will PM it to you. Sorry I can't be more help. If you will pm me your email adress I will send you a couple pics that show the kind of shoulders he had, and let's not forget that big ole wash tub head.
 

JMichal

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3waycross":3rmvhsy0 said:
JMichael
I wish I could help you with that number but the papers went with the bull, and since we wern't registering his calves it's not written down anywhere that I know of. If I come across it I will PM it to you. Sorry I can't be more help. If you will pm me your email adress I will send you a couple pics that show the kind of shoulders he had, and let's not forget that big ole wash tub head.

Do you have a name, breeder, or parentage. Anything to trace him by if I do a search on the AGA website.
 

Victoria

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I don't usually answer phenotype posts,especially when dealing with what bulls to use. The biggest reason is because I think the bull should match the cows and unless I saw your heifers I wouldn't even attempt to tell you what bull to use on them. That said I really don't like the looks of this bull for heifers. He isn't smooth. That shoulder is too clunky for a heifer bull in my opinion. I like a heifer bull that is well balanced and smooth, nothing to get stuck on the way out.
 

racekannon

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I love the "I have never pulled a calf" statment. BS, 5% of mature cows need help when calf is mispresented per university studies. I calfed out 45 hiefers and pulled one this fall, she tried to have it at 4:30 in the afternoon no shade by the waterer in 106 heat index gave up in heat. I guess losing cows and calves I could say that I never helped a calve also, but wouldn't think myself much of a cowman. People say this and when you ask to use their bathroom at the barn there would be chains by the sink. Come on don't insult my intellligence.
 

DOC HARRIS

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Rookie Rancher":1e6drnu8 said:
I'm picking my first bull and I'd love some opinions on this bull's phenotype.
Bull_pic1.jpg

Thanks for your help! :tiphat:

As beef breeder's continue to select for genotype (EPD's) often to the neglect of Phenotype (what they animals LOOK like), it becomes a problem of correct "Functional Traits" - skeletal characteristics, feet, legs, heads, shoulders, topline, and how those skeletal structures blend together for calving ease, and other physical traits.

I agree with Avalon that this particular bull is not phenotypically desirable - particularly in the hind quarters (too short from hooks to pins), and head and shoulders being too large for his calves to easily pass through the birth canal - particularly for heifers. Again, the characteristics of the COWS will dictate 50% of how desirable the matings with any bull will nick.

I think that this as a good example of how the ENTIRE PACKAGE must be considered in your matings, but the hindquarters of THIS bull is not the desirable genetics that one would desire. He lacks thickness from side to side, he is too short from his hooks to his pins, and lacks smoothness of the musculature of his lower rounds. And as has been mentioned before, calves by this bull would have shoulders similar to their sire's, and that is tough birthing. Big, horsey dams might not have trouble with those shoulders, BUT - now we are getting out momma cows too big, and that is a problem all by itself!

Lots of factors to consider! I wouldn't use him.

DOC HARRIS
 

JMichal

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racekannon":26dzxvoi said:
I love the "I have never pulled a calf" statment. BS, 5% of mature cows need help when calf is mispresented per university studies. I calfed out 45 hiefers and pulled one this fall, she tried to have it at 4:30 in the afternoon no shade by the waterer in 106 heat index gave up in heat. I guess losing cows and calves I could say that I never helped a calve also, but wouldn't think myself much of a cowman. People say this and when you ask to use their bathroom at the barn there would be chains by the sink. Come on don't insult my intellligence.

Maybe I'm better at picking the right heifers to keep, or maybe I pick the right kind of Bull. But, like I stated i have not pulled a calve in 10 years. I also have over 95% success on calving, and a 74 % on AI. For 2007. I take my time and try and do things the best I know.
 
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