pasture water question

[Deepsouth]

How big of a pasture can a single water source handle or how far from a water source can cattle reasonably graze?

 

[Banjo]

How big of a pasture can a single water source handle or how far from a water source can cattle reasonably graze?

The NRCS says 800' between waterers..... I have places/paddocks that are as far away as 2000' from a waterer and the cattle seem to do fine. I plan on closing that distance in a year or two. I think I would work on a good rotational grazing system first as long as water is in the area, and then bring in convenient water. That's my opinion.

 

[shaz]

How big of a pasture can a single water source handle or how far from a water source can cattle reasonably graze?

The NRCS says 800' between waterers..... I have places/paddocks that are as far away as 2000' from a waterer and the cattle seem to do fine. I plan on closing that distance in a year or two. I think I would work on a good rotational grazing system first as long as water is in the area, and then bring in convenient water. That's my opinion.

Banjo,
Do you back fence or just allocate new grass daily?
Asking because I have a similar situation.

 

[Banjo]

How big of a pasture can a single water source handle or how far from a water source can cattle reasonably graze?

The NRCS says 800' between waterers..... I have places/paddocks that are as far away as 2000' from a waterer and the cattle seem to do fine. I plan on closing that distance in a year or two. I think I would work on a good rotational grazing system first as long as water is in the area, and then bring in convenient water. That's my opinion.

Banjo,
Do you back fence or just allocate new grass daily?
Asking because I have a similar situation.

This is my first year of intensive rotational grazing so I'm not the expert here, but anyhow, I have a lane that goes the length of the farm and I section off 2 to 3 acres every 2 or 3 days. At the furthest most end of the farm/lane it is about 2000' but they can come to water via the lane and also they have shade out there at the far reaches which is very important too this time of year. The daily moves would probably be better! but it is easier for me since i have cattle on two farms about 15 miles apart. The farm I just mentioned has about 45 mama cows plus calves. one of the things I have noticed early on is that I am really understocked. When I was continuous grazing I thought I was pretty much at my maximum seeing the cows go where ever they wanted to and keeping all the grass grazed short, but now that they can't I seem to have an abundance of grass. Hope this helps.

 

[agmantoo]

I try to abide by the 800 ft rule but I sometimes have to stretch it. Maybe stretch it up to 1200 ft. The only issues I have when the 800 ft is exceeded the herd sometimes "forgets" where they were eating and will stand around waiting on their man to come and allocate new fresh grass instead of returning. I minimize regrazing areas they were on by eliminating back grazing access to no more than 3 days. This situation is typically created when I have to create a route to water. In the time that I have converted to rotational grazing and to daily allocation I have managed to increase the herd size 2 fold, 50 cows to 100. Without feeding hay I feel that I have reached carrying capacity of my limited acreage; cow and calf (calf to market) on 1.4 acres/365.

 

[pdfangus]

actually the more correct answere is in the way the cattle access the water.
generally if the water is close the animals will make their way to water as individuals or in small groups where a frost free trough or other vessle with relatively low capacity which can refill constantly will do fine.

if the animals need to go farther distances cows will usually go as a herd since it is a migration. Then you need to have the capacity to water all of them in pretty quick time. After the leaders drink they will migrate away and the stragglers will follow the migration and may not have gotten water. If you have a limited supply trough like a frost free or somthing on a float valve the animals spend time and energy strrugling for a place at the trough rather than drinking.

We use to have a shaddy wooded area not too far from a frost free trough and I would see individual animals going to and from the trough all day long during the summer. In the cool season and at night, when they ranged to the far ends of the field they would all come to water at the same time and would stand around the trough for an hour with cows waiting their turn and waiting for the trough to refill.

 

[shaz]

I try to abide by the 800 ft rule but I sometimes have to stretch it. Maybe stretch it up to 1200 ft. The only issues I have when the 800 ft is exceeded the herd sometimes "forgets" where they were eating and will stand around waiting on their man to come and allocate new fresh grass instead of returning. I minimize regrazing areas they were on by eliminating back grazing access to no more than 3 days. This situation is typically created when I have to create a route to water. In the time that I have converted to rotational grazing and to daily allocation I have managed to increase the herd size 2 fold, 50 cows to 100. Without feeding hay I feel that I have reached carrying capacity of my limited acreage; cow and calf (calf to market) on 1.4 acres/365.

.
So it sounds like you could "forward" graze for 3 days and really cut down on your back fencing. After that you may be on a different water source anyway. What I'm getting at is trying to avoid building a lane or at least postpone it to minimize traffic through the same area.

From my limited trials I've seen no evidence of backgrazing when I allocate new grass daily. Just my observation, not something I can really measure.

 

[Deepsouth]

Thanks guys. I was hoping it would be alot farther than 800'. Banjo I'm trying to do exactly what you said I should do. I have a 45 acre pasture that I am trying to lay out a plan for rotational grazing, I was not planning on doing it so intense as daily rotations but I am hoping to get 4 or 5 pads on a 6 or 7 day rotation. My biggest problem is that my pasture is very irregularly shaped. It is a triangle with 2 sides almost a half mile long and the top about a quarter mile across. It also has a deep steep sided comma shaped hollow running from near the center out to the center of the top line. My access to water is along one of the half mile lines. I did not really want to run a waterline accross the field but I guess thats what I need to do. I might could put a catch pen in a central location with a water trough in it and bring all the feed pads back to it. Well it gives me something to think about. Thanks again for the help and any suggestions or ideals are welcome.

 

[Douglas]

In thinking about this remember that younger cattle can manage longer distances and in cold weather they need less and will take fewer trips to water.

 

[agmantoo]

I try to abide by the 800 ft rule but I sometimes have to stretch it. Maybe stretch it up to 1200 ft. The only issues I have when the 800 ft is exceeded the herd sometimes "forgets" where they were eating and will stand around waiting on their man to come and allocate new fresh grass instead of returning. I minimize regrazing areas they were on by eliminating back grazing access to no more than 3 days. This situation is typically created when I have to create a route to water. In the time that I have converted to rotational grazing and to daily allocation I have managed to increase the herd size 2 fold, 50 cows to 100. Without feeding hay I feel that I have reached carrying capacity of my limited acreage; cow and calf (calf to market) on 1.4 acres/365.

.
So it sounds like you could "forward" graze for 3 days and really cut down on your back fencing. After that you may be on a different water source anyway. What I'm getting at is trying to avoid building a lane or at least postpone it to minimize traffic through the same area.

shaz

Forward grazing without a back temporary polywire backfence is not an issue when grass is abundant. From my limited trials I've seen no evidence of backgrazing when I allocate new grass daily. When you have to truly start managing the movement of the herd because grass is in short supply the situation will abruptly change. I cannot imagine why you are reluctant to build some lanes. Lane allow you to control the herd and to move cattle to corrals should you need to work the cattle. Additionally, lanes permit the movement of trucks and tractors along with machinery without having obstacles such as fences. You will not lose productive land as you will be able to graze the lanes. Lanes allow for efficient use of the pastures and the layout of the paddocks. Flexibility is essential IMO as no two days are identical and the need to modify the sizes of paddocks is necessary due to these changes in weather, seasons and forages, etc. I once had fixed paddocks, I would never revert to that system again.

 

[regolith]

I'm finding regular traffic in wet weather, lanes get cut up pretty badly - and by that I mean I've had 50 cows still milking, travelling to the shed as a group once daily and they've walked over the same area for 2 weeks, with rain every single day. There's no formed track on that part of the farm and normally the full milking herd grazes through there in four or five days. So by luck we've got through nearly a year with minimal damage till now... a few more days of use in wet weather and that lane would have been destroyed.
Just wondering how you avoid that scenario agman... if I recall your lanes are fairly wide so the traffic isn't concentrated in a narrow area? I ran a polywire out making a lane about 12 - 14 feet wide to stop them backgrazing as they were walking home.
This isn't the same issue as the actual tracks I've posted photos of before - I would expect fifty cows travelling once down and once back each day to cause no more pressure on the lanes than walking for water.

 

[shaz]

I try to abide by the 800 ft rule but I sometimes have to stretch it. Maybe stretch it up to 1200 ft. The only issues I have when the 800 ft is exceeded the herd sometimes "forgets" where they were eating and will stand around waiting on their man to come and allocate new fresh grass instead of returning. I minimize regrazing areas they were on by eliminating back grazing access to no more than 3 days. This situation is typically created when I have to create a route to water. In the time that I have converted to rotational grazing and to daily allocation I have managed to increase the herd size 2 fold, 50 cows to 100. Without feeding hay I feel that I have reached carrying capacity of my limited acreage; cow and calf (calf to market) on 1.4 acres/365.

.
So it sounds like you could "forward" graze for 3 days and really cut down on your back fencing. After that you may be on a different water source anyway. What I'm getting at is trying to avoid building a lane or at least postpone it to minimize traffic through the same area.

shaz

Forward grazing without a back temporary polywire backfence is not an issue when grass is abundant. From my limited trials I've seen no evidence of backgrazing when I allocate new grass daily. When you have to truly start managing the movement of the herd because grass is in short supply the situation will abruptly change. I cannot imagine why you are reluctant to build some lanes. Lane allow you to control the herd and to move cattle to corrals should you need to work the cattle. Additionally, lanes permit the movement of trucks and tractors along with machinery without having obstacles such as fences. You will not lose productive land as you will be able to graze the lanes. Lanes allow for efficient use of the pastures and the layout of the paddocks. Flexibility is essential IMO as no two days are identical and the need to modify the sizes of paddocks is necessary due to these changes in weather, seasons and forages, etc. I once had fixed paddocks, I would never revert to that system again.

Because I don't think it will be an issue when I install a few more water points. My place has 6 paddocks with water and regular fence. I just need to manage WITHIN those paddocks. Smallest is 15 acres.
I do have one case that will be a real problem though. It's a bad hill about 50acres and the best I can do is a water tank at the bottom on one end. I'll have to put up a lane there but I can mostly keep it in the woods.
There is one paddock that is ~100 acres with a pond and I'm going to use that as my mismanged area when I have to go out of the country (I'm in Japan now).

 

[ChrisB]

I would guess temperature plays a factor, but my cow are usually 1/2 mile or more from water in the summer and probably around 1000 feet away in the winter and they do fine. Out west in seems there is at least a mile or more between water sources.

 

[Deepsouth]

I would guess temperature plays a factor, but my cow are usually 1/2 mile or more from water in the summer and probably around 1000 feet away in the winter and they do fine. Out west in seems there is at least a mile or more between water sources.

This is more what I was thinking. 800 feet does not seem far at all I was thinking over a quarter mile at the least.

 

[Lucky_P]

pdfangus touched on it.
In most cases, if they have to walk more than 800 ft to water, they tend to go as a herd - and unless you've got sizeable 'reserve', they'll drink it dry - and stand around waiting for it to refill - or on really hot days, may destroy the tank fighting to get some water - and more timid cows may never get to the front to drink enough before they just give up.
At distances 800 ft or less, they tend to go as individuals or in small groups, and don't overwhelm reserve capacity or refill rate.

If you're not managing for maximum forage growth/utilization, distance to water may not be a prime consideration.

 

[Deepsouth]

I see your point lucky. I guess that brings up the next question. What should be the minimum holding capacity of a water supply for say fifty head.

 

[Douglas]

One the primary reason for the 800 ft. rule is that cattle tend to gaze near the water source more. Studies have show that in large paddocks cattle graze very little past 1200 ft. This article is a little old but covers this topic well:

http://www.noble.org/ag/livestock/waterconcerns/