pasture questions

[schamblee]

With a pH of 5.7 there is P in the soil which won't show up in a soil test. Actually with lime to raise the pH you might not need any additional P. You say what they recommended but not what the results were. That no lime needed comment does raise some concern. Sampling soil, interpreting the results and making recommendations based on those results is a large part of what I did for a living for 20+ years.

Here is the soil sample

 

[kenny thomas]

Lime that is used on fields and pasture does not all come from quarries. Lime that is used for agriculture is often a byproduct of water and waste treatment processes. This is the lime I am referring to. Lime that is processed specifically for agriculture field use or directly from a mine and then ground should be safe. At least I've never heard of a problem in this regard. I have heard of lime 'byproduct' being so contaminated that syringes and diapers have ended up being spread on fields. Extreme case and seems very unlikely, although the diapers and syringes incident was local here shortly before I moved to the area.

Thats using human waste not lime to me. We have to go through a long permit process to use that here. I would not use it even if allowed.
Yes we use good lime from quaries because its only a few miles away. Clinchvalley86 and several others can get lime that's a byproduct of zinc mining thats even a better grade of lime.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Thats using human waste not lime to me. We have to go through a long permit process to use that here. I would not use it even if allowed.
Yes we use good lime from quaries because its only a few miles away. Clinchvalley86 and several others can get lime that's a byproduct of zinc mining thats even a better grade of lime.

I'm not suggesting that you or anyone use it. The point I'm making is that it is used/does get used. If you choose to use it, be aware that there are potential not so great consequences that can arise, and be careful. Lime that is/can be used is often a byproduct and/or has been used as a decontaminant, and now contains the contaminants.

 

[kenny thomas]

@Mark Reynolds , does the grasses he grows not need a PH of more than 5.7?
@schamblee, in my soils here in Virginia a PH of 5.7 is very low for our grasses. Thats why im asking.

 

[kenny thomas]

I'm not suggesting that you or anyone use it. The point I'm making is that it is used/does get used. If you choose to use it, be aware that there are potential not so great consequences that can arise, and be careful. Lime that is/can be used is often a byproduct and/or has been used as a decontaminant, and now contains the contaminants.

Is it not tested? It would be here and a DEQ person on site when its spread.

 

[Ridgefarmer63]

Thats using human waste not lime to me. We have to go through a long permit process to use that here. I would not use it even if allowed.
Yes we use good lime from quaries because its only a few miles away. Clinchvalley86 and several others can get lime that's a byproduct of zinc mining thats even a better grade of lime.

That's called bio solids in our neck of the woods. I won't use but know guys who do and they say it makes the grass sing....

 

[Mark Reynolds]

@Mark Reynolds , does the grasses he grows not need a PH of more than 5.7?
@schamblee, in my soils here in Virginia a PH of 5.7 is very low for our grasses. Thats why im asking.

There are instances - few and far between - where soils are properly buffered but have a lower pH. This appears to be one of those instances. I do know it's possible, but I don't understand all the chemistry that goes along with it. The soil type itself has an effect on this. I'd take a guess that this soil is either extremely sandy or has a very high clay content/percentage resulting in some somewhat 'abnormal' pH buffering compared to what we are accustomed to. That said, the resulting pH does affect the availability of nutrients to the grasses. I've never had the opportunity to encounter one of these soils so I can't speak too much about it, although I think it would be fascinating to do so.

5.7 is on the low end of what would be considered normal for typical/most grasses. I have encountered grasses performing 'average' at pHs of around 5.2 or so, although there tend to be other indicators present that you don't really want. A high percentage of broomsedge bluestem being one of those indicators.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

That's called bio solids in our neck of the woods. I won't use but know guys who do and they say it makes the grass sing....

Fair enough as human waste is a true bio-solid. Diapers and syringes I don't think qualify.

 

[Ridgefarmer63]

Fair enough as human waste is a true bio-solid. Diapers and syringes I don't think qualify.

Yup. That's why I won't use them. I've heard everything from diapers to used syringes are found in the field/hay. But, it's a free-ish country so to each their own.

 

[kenny thomas]

Some of the drug residues pass through the body in high amounts. Spread that and its there also. Talking about killing the bugs in the soil. Nope, not for me.

 

[greybeard]

I used to work at a shop right next to the big round sludge tank @ the city sewage treatment plant. Early 70s. All around the outside, were HUGE tomato plants. Them were some really good tomatoes but I wouldn't eat any nowadays.

 

[simme]

Waste water treatment involves clarification processes that separate the solids (sludge) and the liquids. Eventually the liquids are returned to streams and the solids are disposed of in some way. Lime can be added to the sludge to raise the ph to the 11.5 to 12 range for 24 hours. This will cause an exothermic reaction (raises the temperature) that helps to kill some of the pathogens. The high ph also helps to kill them.

Seems like a bit of a stretch to call the resultant product "lime". It is treated sewer sludge, treated with lime. Still has the ability to adjust ph of soil. Still has nutrients. And "more stuff" as well.

 

[Dave]

I have never spread bio solid but I did feed a lot of hay that came from a farm that surrounded and was owned by a waste treatment plant. They must of had a better filtration system because there was never the unwanted solid stuff on the ground. Cows did good on the hay.

 

[Dave]

Here is the soil sample

Not much in the way of sample results. The lab I used gave results in parts per million and a much broader list of elements.

 

[BC]

In looking at the soil samples provided, I looked at the type of grass that was being fertilized and it is probably bermuda or bahia based on being in Mississippi. 5.7 pH is on the economic threshold for needing lime for those grasses here in East Texas. Bermuda when grown for hay uses N-P-K in a 4-1-3 or 5-1-4 ratio. Four 1000 lb. rolls per acre removes 100 lbs of N, 40 lbs or P and 85 lbs of K from the soil. If you have not been replacing that K at that rate, could be the reason your sample called for 100 lbs of K to build the level need back up. You need to remember that bermuda is a luxury consumer of K,so if you put the years worth of K at one time, the bermuda will take it up in the first cutting. That is why split applications are recommended.

 

[schamblee]

There are instances - few and far between - where soils are properly buffered but have a lower pH. This appears to be one of those instances. I do know it's possible, but I don't understand all the chemistry that goes along with it. The soil type itself has an effect on this. I'd take a guess that this soil is either extremely sandy or has a very high clay content/percentage resulting in some somewhat 'abnormal' pH buffering compared to what we are accustomed to. That said, the resulting pH does affect the availability of nutrients to the grasses. I've never had the opportunity to encounter one of these soils so I can't speak too much about it, although I think it would be fascinating to do so.

5.7 is on the low end of what would be considered normal for typical/most grasses. I have encountered grasses performing 'average' at pHs of around 5.2 or so, although there tend to be other indicators present that you don't really want. A high percentage of broomsedge bluestem being one of those indicators.

it is a fairly sandy soil.. The pasture has a lot of good grass and very little to no broomsedge. I have had hay cut on the property for the last 8 years and he has fertilized it but have never limed it.. I did the soil test to see where things were as I plan to turn cattle out on it this spring..

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I have never spread bio solid but I did feed a lot of hay that came from a farm that surrounded and was owned by a waste treatment plant. They must of had a better filtration system because there was never the unwanted solid stuff on the ground. Cows did good on the hay.

Mistakes and screw-ups are relatively rare. It's always prudent to remain diligent with dealing with anything that has any potential to go south. 99.999% of the time there's not a problem. It's the 0.001% occurrence that you have told yourself "it will never happen to me" that bites you when you least expect it and disrupts your entire operation for years or even permanently.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

it is a fairly sandy soil.. The pasture has a lot of good grass and very little to no broomsedge. I have had hay cut on the property for the last 8 years and he has fertilized it but have never limed it.. I did the soil test to see where things were as I plan to turn cattle out on it this spring..

I figured I'd post the following. This is not the norm by any stretch but it is possible. It's a good topic for discussion and is worth being aware of. You will likely never see it, but in @schamblee 's case, the rare occurrence does pop up. I'm starting a thread specific to this as it will make for a good discussion. In addition to your soil being sandy, I bet it is light and probably low or somewhat low in organic matter.

You can have a low soil pH but not need lime1​2​3​4​5​. The goal of liming is not to raise the pH to neutral (7.0), but to avoid crop problems related to excessive acidity2​. If the soil pH is 6.5 or above, don't apply wood ashes4​. A soil test is the most accurate way to determine if your lawn needs a lime treatment5​