ousoonerfan22 Bull

[Chuckie]

I've studied genetics, and I know that you can post the picture of a bull's sire 100 times and still get a steer.
Wait, I mean a bull that should have been snipped.

 

[3waycross]

He is basically the result of a 3 way cross and therefore expresses just about the maximum amount of heterosis. What you see there is partly due to heterosis and unfortunately it ends with him and isn't transfered to his progeny, just is why he should be the end product and not one of the tools to make the end product.

It takes years and generations to stabilize genetics, most composite breeds that has been going 50 years still don't breed true, what is the chance that this bull will?

That said, I'll take a backseat now and let the hobby experts debate it further.

Better yet maybe we can just rely on Ousoonersfan to post some pictures of his calf crop and let them speak for themselves. He[[ even us hobbyists can decide for ourselves if he should have been cut or not!

 

[goddy]

He is basically the result of a 3 way cross and therefore expresses just about the maximum amount of heterosis. What you see there is partly due to heterosis and unfortunately it ends with him and isn't transfered to his progeny, just is why he should be the end product and not one of the tools to make the end product.

It takes years and generations to stabilize genetics, most composite breeds that has been going 50 years still don't breed true, what is the chance that this bull will?

That said, I'll take a backseat now and let the hobby experts debate it further.

This post makes me a little sad. Knersie, up till now I've enjoyed, learnt from and respected your opinions but it seems you have taken this a little personally or something ????????? It has been my experience that many in the "hobby stage" have much to offer and much to teach and to put yourself above that doesn't seem like the real you. Look forward to your posts on different topics in the future.

Goddy

 

[Chuckie]

Knersie, When talking genetics, let's go over the fact that you must give DNA samples of your cattle to prove that there are enough genes in the animal to register it as a Hereford.
The sire of your bull is not full Hereford as the pictures show with the full white leg facing away from the camera. How far does the white travel up the animal's body? What does his DNA test show? The animal is then given the illiusion of facing the opposite direction; it is mirrored. What other breed was he crossed with to be considered a Hereford? What percentage DNA is he?

Knersie wrote earlier:

Ace, the bull was bred by a friend of mine and I've followed his progress from an early age, so although I can't be 100% sure I doubt if his hooves had ever been touched, he was very impressive, but for me he was just a tool and not everything went according to plan. Do you talk about the dark spots on the calf or the sire? Either way it doesn't bother me as they were DNA tested as the sire is a well known AI sire now and my cow had been tested as well last year by the World Hereford Association's random testing scheme. There are bigger things we need to worry about than a few spots or an extra patch of white.

Come to think about it, 0705' dam has a few black hair on her right hip.

She also has goggles and they asked for a DNA test.
How much percentage does it take to be a Hereford? 1/2, 2/3? Why is so much cross breeding allowed to gain a registered Hereford?

Does the possiblility of at least a 4-way, 5-way, or more, in your bull alone cross your mind? I do not see how a 3-way cross can ever be accomplished by using Hereford stock. I can see how it would be hard to get the full potential of masculinity of a bull with these protocols.
Your bull shows to be crossed, and the right front leg is hidden in the picture as well. I cannot see any pigmentation in his eyes; he has goggles, and a high white neck piece.

Each time you bring in a different breeding of a new cow, or a new AI bull straw, you have no idea how many different breeds were crossed before one single DNA sample passed; or the one before, to get that one registered Hereford animal.

It knocks a gaping hole in your "Genetics expert " status.

 

[Isomade]

Knersie, When talking genetics, let's go over the fact that you must give DNA samples of your cattle to prove that there are enough genes in the animal to register it as a Hereford.
The sire of your bull is not full Hereford as the pictures show with the full white leg facing away from the camera. How far does the white travel up the animal's body? What does his DNA test show? The animal is then given the illiusion of facing the opposite direction; it is mirrored. What other breed was he crossed with to be considered a Hereford? What percentage DNA is he?

Knersie wrote earlier:

Ace, the bull was bred by a friend of mine and I've followed his progress from an early age, so although I can't be 100% sure I doubt if his hooves had ever been touched, he was very impressive, but for me he was just a tool and not everything went according to plan. Do you talk about the dark spots on the calf or the sire? Either way it doesn't bother me as they were DNA tested as the sire is a well known AI sire now and my cow had been tested as well last year by the World Hereford Association's random testing scheme. There are bigger things we need to worry about than a few spots or an extra patch of white.

Come to think about it, 0705' dam has a few black hair on her right hip.

She also has goggles and they asked for a DNA test.
How much percentage does it take to be a Hereford? 1/2, 2/3? Why is so much cross breeding allowed to gain a registered Hereford?

Does the possiblility of at least a 4-way, 5-way, or more, in your bull alone cross your mind? I do not see how a 3-way cross can ever be accomplished by using Hereford stock. I can see how it would be hard to get the full potential of masculinity of a bull with these protocols.
Your bull shows to be crossed, and the right front leg is hidden in the picture as well. I cannot see any pigmentation in his eyes; he has goggles, and a high white neck piece.

Each time you bring in a different breeding of a new cow, or a new AI bull straw, you have no idea how many different breeds were crossed before one single DNA sample passed; or the one before, to get that one registered Hereford animal.

It knocks a gaping hole in your "Genetics expert " status.

Folks we have a new world record for longest running grudge on a chat forum. Whats is been 2 years? I can't even remember what I had for lunch today, munch less hold a grudge at a faceless person on a chat forum.

 

[chippie]

reminds me of Frankie

 

[Chuckie]

How was Frankie? Seems like I remember that name.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

How was Frankie? Seems like I remember that name.

very lovable, and a all time board favorite... also president of the anti angus association...

 

[KNERSIE]

How was Frankie? Seems like I remember that name.

very lovable, and a all time board favorite... also president of the anti angus association...

And an upstanding Republican?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

How was Frankie? Seems like I remember that name.

very lovable, and a all time board favorite... also president of the anti angus association...

And an upstanding Republican?

plus a staunch conservative..

 

[KNERSIE]

At least she had a bit of knowledge to back up her charming personality.

 

[Chuckie]

ALACOWMAN, you have that blackwards!
I am for any breed that the buyer will pay for, and a Conservative? You bet!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I wasn't around back then but I thought Frankie liked Angus?

 

[Chuckie]

She did, that part I do remember.

 

[Alan]

Some of you new guys that haven't been around since Frankie left are getting your chain yanked! She was a die hard Polled Hereford lover and big time breeder! come on guys you're making things confusing. :?

 

[inyati13]

He is basically the result of a 3 way cross and therefore expresses just about the maximum amount of heterosis. What you see there is partly due to heterosis and unfortunately it ends with him and isn't transfered to his progeny, just is why he should be the end product and not one of the tools to make the end product.

It takes years and generations to stabilize genetics, most composite breeds that has been going 50 years still don't breed true, what is the chance that this bull will?

That said, I'll take a backseat now and let the hobby experts debate it further.

KNERSIE, Breeding is as much an art as it is the application of science and/or animal husbandry. Genetics is a pure science. One can be a renown breeder and not have more than a rudimentary background in the science of genetics. I have communicated with you but I don't know your academic background. For all I know, you have a Ph D in Molecular Genetics. So I am at a disadvantage in assessing what you mean on a macrogenetic or microgenetic level when you state, "It takes years and generations to stabilize genetics." Taken in the context of your sentence, do not mean that literally? Based on the context of the entire post, I think you are saying that a composite/cross cannot be depended on to produce the same phenotype in the offspring as the phenotype observed in the parents or one of the parents. Which is as close to the definition of true breeding as I remember. But I would not as a student of genetics refer to that concept as a stabilizing process. That is not my understanding of genetics.

PS: To be clear, I do not disagree with the concept that heterosis produces offspring with a very diverse genome and as a result there is a greater range in varibility in the phenotypes. BTW, heterosis is both a breeding term and a pure genetic concept. It was originally called heterozygosity but it was changed to heterosis because of confusion with heterzygous.

 

[Alan]

He is basically the result of a 3 way cross and therefore expresses just about the maximum amount of heterosis. What you see there is partly due to heterosis and unfortunately it ends with him and isn't transfered to his progeny, just is why he should be the end product and not one of the tools to make the end product.

It takes years and generations to stabilize genetics, most composite breeds that has been going 50 years still don't breed true, what is the chance that this bull will?

That said, I'll take a backseat now and let the hobby experts debate it further.

KNERSIE, Breeding is as much an art as it is the application of science and/or animal husbandry. Genetics is a pure science. One can be a renown breeder and not have more than a rudimentary background in the science of genetics. I have communicated with you but I don't know your academic background. For all I know, you have a Ph D in Molecular Genetics. So I am at a disadvantage in assessing what you mean on a macrogenetic or microgenetic level when you state, "It takes years and generations to stabilize genetics." Taken in the context of your sentence, do not mean that literally? Based on the context of the entire post, I think you are saying that a Lcomposite/cross cannot be depended on to produce the same phenotype in the offspring as the phenotype observed in the parents or one of the parents. Which is as close to the definition of true breeding as I remember. But I would not as a student of genetics refer to that concept as a stabilizing process. That is not my understanding of genetics.

Okay, now I'm in with both feet! While Knersie's comments have rubbed me the wrong way on more than one occasion, he is one of the top minds on cattle and cattle breeding on this board. His cattle will go head to head with any cattle posted here and beat the shyt out of most posted. That's no offense to anyone, but look at the whole picture. Yes hobby guys like me can't hold a candle to him when it comes to cattle, but look at your herd and take a close look at his. If he wasn't in a third world country I would have some of his genetics. Some of you guys do a search for his eye structure, (set) post with a lot of pics and learn..

No I'm not going to concentrate on eye set, too many other problems with my herd, but I will put the ear tags closer to the head next year on my calves, thanks Dave.

Harley, you have rubbed me the wrong way on more than one occasion. Not everyone is seed stock or show animal producers. Some of us hooby guys just like it to be a hobby and do our best to improve our herd at a hobby level.

Hang in there,
Alan

 

[skeeter swatter]

Okay, I need to know Taurus, why do you feel this cross bred bull is likely to not throw a uniform crop of calves. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just curious to why a cross bred bull may have a problem with uniform calves. I like the Hereford bull much better, but if I could get a pasture full of calves as good as the cross bred I would be dancing.

I think what Taurus is saying is that bull will throw calves that look Hereford sired, Brangus sired, or anywhere in between.

 

[inyati13]

He is basically the result of a 3 way cross and therefore expresses just about the maximum amount of heterosis. What you see there is partly due to heterosis and unfortunately it ends with him and isn't transfered to his progeny, just is why he should be the end product and not one of the tools to make the end product.

It takes years and generations to stabilize genetics, most composite breeds that has been going 50 years still don't breed true, what is the chance that this bull will?

That said, I'll take a backseat now and let the hobby experts debate it further.

KNERSIE, Breeding is as much an art as it is the application of science and/or animal husbandry. Genetics is a pure science. One can be a renown breeder and not have more than a rudimentary background in the science of genetics. I have communicated with you but I don't know your academic background. For all I know, you have a Ph D in Molecular Genetics. So I am at a disadvantage in assessing what you mean on a macrogenetic or microgenetic level when you state, "It takes years and generations to stabilize genetics." Taken in the context of your sentence, do not mean that literally? Based on the context of the entire post, I think you are saying that a Lcomposite/cross cannot be depended on to produce the same phenotype in the offspring as the phenotype observed in the parents or one of the parents. Which is as close to the definition of true breeding as I remember. But I would not as a student of genetics refer to that concept as a stabilizing process. That is not my understanding of genetics.

Okay, now I'm in with both feet! While Knersie's comments have rubbed me the wrong way on more than one occasion, he is one of the top minds on cattle and cattle breeding on this board. His cattle will go head to head with any cattle posted here and beat the shyt out of most posted. That's no offense to anyone, but look at the whole picture. Yes hobby guys like me can't hold a candle to him when it comes to cattle, but look at your herd and take a close look at his. If he wasn't in a third world country I would have some of his genetics. Some of you guys do a search for his eye structure, (set) post with a lot of pics and learn..

No I'm not going to concentrate on eye set, too many other problems with my herd, but I will put the ear tags closer to the head next year on my calves, thanks Dave.

Harley, you have rubbed me the wrong way on more than one occasion. Not everyone is seed stock or show animal producers. Some of us hooby guys just like it to be a hobby and do our best to improve our herd at a hobby level.

Hang in there,
Alan

Alan, am I being used in this post as a quote? I have no idea what you point is. Why are you involving me in your post?

 

[Alan]

Relax, my post was not directed at you or anyone else. I'm just saying relax and soak in Knersie's knowledge, don't run him off. Read my post.