OPEN HEIFERS OR MOMAS WITH CALVES

[USNAVY8488]

With the present price of cattle, would it be better to invest in open heifers or a few 3in1 moma cows. The moma cows are around 6 years old.

 

[RanchMan90]

How much $? How long do you plan on keeping them?

 

[HDRider]

I am asking myself this same question.

I don't have any expertise to lend to the discussion, but I am thinking bred heifers because I plan to keep them for years, or as long as they are producing.

One could easily make an argument for young 3 in 1s.

 

[USNAVY8488]

open heifers at 850/head 6yr old 3in1 1800/head

 

[RanchMan90]

I'd take the 3 in 1s personally. They know how to calve and you'll know what kind of calf they raise. Also a much faster ROI and no need for a bull til spring

 

[farmerjan]

Open heifers: have to be bred, 9 months to calf on ground 6-9 months before first return on money. 850 plus 1 1/2 yrs feed/upkeep so add another minimum 750 not counting any loses of calves or problem calvings before you see any payback; so at least 1600 in them minimum before the first sale. 3 in 1 @ 1800. Guaranteed preg or just exposed? Potential sale of calf in 6 months m/l @ lows of 1.00 lb./600 lbs will get the preg cow down to 1200 with another calf on it's way. Also, since the cow has raised one already (at least), potential calving difficulties are less, you know she knows what she is doing and had milk to raise the previous calf; yes she can get mastitis but so can any cow at any time, so a little more sure thing. Bred heifers and cows around here are anywhere from 1,000 to 2,000. If they really are 6 yrs old then you are talking another 6 calves out of them at least, if not more.
For me, 3 in 1 no question if they are confirmed preg .

 

[USNAVY8488]

Thanks for the information, very much helped. I am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks again.

 

[RanchMan90]

You're welcome. Keep a sharp pencil and good records and you should be off to a good start :)

 

[dun]

I'd take the 3 in 1s personally. They know how to calve and you'll know what kind of calf they raise. Also a much faster ROI and no need for a bull til spring

I agree, sort of. I'm a sucker for a pretty face, and some of the heifers I've seen (bought) just drew me in.

 

[TCRanch]

I'd take the 3 in 1s personally. They know how to calve and you'll know what kind of calf they raise. Also a much faster ROI and no need for a bull til spring

I agree, sort of. I'm a sucker for a pretty face, and some of the heifers I've seen (bought) just drew me in.

Dun, I've got some pretty bred heifers for you :) Handshake deal, my bad, now the buyer can't afford them.

 

[talltimber]

Post some pics TC, I like looking at pretty heifers.

 

[angus9259]

For me, 3 in 1 no question if they are confirmed preg .

All day long every day 365 days a year without any question.

Even if you want the open heifers because you "plan" to keep them, there is no such plan. An open heifer may never breed let alone calve. And, if she does calve, you have no idea if she'll produce a good calf or enough milk to raise a calf such that she'd be one you'd keep around anyway. That's before you even get to the joys of housing a bull.....

 

[farmerjan]

For me, 3 in 1 no question if they are confirmed preg .

All day long every day 365 days a year without any question.

Even if you want the open heifers because you "plan" to keep them, there is no such plan. An open heifer may never breed let alone calve. And, if she does calve, you have no idea if she'll produce a good calf or enough milk to raise a calf such that she'd be one you'd keep around anyway. That's before you even get to the joys of housing a bull.....

Thanks for the thumbs up; it seems so many people are blinded by the " heifers will be around for a long time". I got my son to see why I am a diehard for buying cows and not heifers when he bought a "cheap" group of bred heifers, and lost 1 calving, 1 aborted, 1 not bred, 1 dead calf that we finally got to take another calf, 1 with very little milk, and they were too young and never grew because of being stunted. When bred heifers come in the ring now at sales, he will look at me and just grin cuz he learned his lesson. Sure some bred heifers do good, but I will buy a cow everytime and yes we have buried a few of them; but not in proportion to the cost etc. of bred heifers.

 

[Brute 23]

Its almost a wash with those prices. Go with the better quality animals.

Ideally I would look for bred heifers or younger 3n1s. 6yrs old is really pushing it. You have to factor that in on the value of the animals if you had to liquidate in a year or two.

 

[coachg]

Heifers can teach you some hard lessons while 3 in 1's are a fairly sure bet . I would choose the momma cows ! Been there , done that , have the t- shirt !

 

[TCRanch]

Post some pics TC, I like looking at pretty heifers.

Only have a couple semi decent pics of the girls. If I stand there with a camera they think I might have treats & get mobbed.





They're bred by this hunk-o-meat.

 

[talltimber]

Nice!

 

[farmerjan]

Its almost a wash with those prices. Go with the better quality animals.

Ideally I would look for bred heifers or younger 3n1s. 6yrs old is really pushing it. You have to factor that in on the value of the animals if you had to liquidate in a year or two.

First I want to say that you are definitely more experienced that me, at least you have been on this forum alot longer and I have read alot of different things that you have contributed to. But I would beg to differ with you on the 6 years old is really pushing it. We have 2/3rds of our herd in the 6-10 year range and to me a 6yr old is just getting good. If she has made it through the first 3-4 calves and still there then she has staying and keeping qualities. I have read several posts with 10-12-14 yr old cows and seen several with VERY nice calves and the cows look good. There is one farmer here that sells most everything over 8 yrs old, and we have picked up quite a few of his older cows and kept them for 5-6 more years. With the prices in the tank now, I don't liquidating in a year or two would be something to even consider. If you get into it now you need to plan to stay in for at least 5 years, and by then the cull cow market might be back up to a decent level. But, everyone has their own opinion and what works for you might not work for me.

 

[Brute 23]

Its almost a wash with those prices. Go with the better quality animals.

Ideally I would look for bred heifers or younger 3n1s. 6yrs old is really pushing it. You have to factor that in on the value of the animals if you had to liquidate in a year or two.

First I want to say that you are definitely more experienced that me, at least you have been on this forum alot longer and I have read alot of different things that you have contributed to. But I would beg to differ with you on the 6 years old is really pushing it. We have 2/3rds of our herd in the 6-10 year range and to me a 6yr old is just getting good. If she has made it through the first 3-4 calves and still there then she has staying and keeping qualities. I have read several posts with 10-12-14 yr old cows and seen several with VERY nice calves and the cows look good.

I agree 100% on their productivity but the market does not respond well to cows over 5 from what I have seen. They are basically worth their weight in ground beef so you should buy accordingly IMO.

There is one farmer here that sells most everything over 8 yrs old, and we have picked up quite a few of his older cows and kept them for 5-6 more years.

There is no problem with that if the price reflects the age of the animal. If she only has 6 years of production left that does not leave a lot of time to pay her off and then profit after that so they need to be priced accordingly. On avg it takes me 3 calves to pay off a cow. So if I can buy a cow with 12 years left for only a couple hundred dollars more than one with 6 years left... the younger animal is a much better value.

With the prices in the tank now, I don't liquidating in a year or two would be something to even consider. If you get into it now you need to plan to stay in for at least 5 years, and by then the cull cow market might be back up to a decent level. But, everyone has their own opinion and what works for you might not work for me.

No one plans on having to liquidate but all good business plans have a worse case scenario. I put a lot more weight on the potential down side than the potential up side.

Any one who says you should only buy 3n1s or only heifers or only this or that is being short sighted. Buy what ever is the best value. IMO money is made on the buy... not on the sell. ;-)

 

[angus9259]

Its almost a wash with those prices. Go with the better quality animals.

Ideally I would look for bred heifers or younger 3n1s. 6yrs old is really pushing it. You have to factor that in on the value of the animals if you had to liquidate in a year or two.

First I want to say that you are definitely more experienced that me, at least you have been on this forum alot longer and I have read alot of different things that you have contributed to. But I would beg to differ with you on the 6 years old is really pushing it. We have 2/3rds of our herd in the 6-10 year range and to me a 6yr old is just getting good. If she has made it through the first 3-4 calves and still there then she has staying and keeping qualities. I have read several posts with 10-12-14 yr old cows and seen several with VERY nice calves and the cows look good.

I agree 100% on their productivity but the market does not respond well to cows over 5 from what I have seen. They are basically worth their weight in ground beef so you should buy accordingly IMO.

There is one farmer here that sells most everything over 8 yrs old, and we have picked up quite a few of his older cows and kept them for 5-6 more years.

There is no problem with that if the price reflects the age of the animal. If she only has 6 years of production left that does not leave a lot of time to pay her off and then profit after that so they need to be priced accordingly. On avg it takes me 3 calves to pay off a cow. So if I can buy a cow with 12 years left for only a couple hundred dollars more than one with 6 years left... the younger animal is a much better value.

With the prices in the tank now, I don't liquidating in a year or two would be something to even consider. If you get into it now you need to plan to stay in for at least 5 years, and by then the cull cow market might be back up to a decent level. But, everyone has their own opinion and what works for you might not work for me.

No one plans on having to liquidate but all good business plans have a worse case scenario. I put a lot more weight on the potential down side than the potential up side.

Any one who says you should only buy 3n1s or only heifers or only this or that is being short sighted. Buy what ever is the best value. IMO money is made on the buy... not on the sell. ;-)

True - but this poster had pretty specific type AND pricing so it wasn't just a general "always do this" response either. If the 3-1s had been 2500-3000 and opens been $500, then it's a different conversation.

Also, I don't think it takes 3 calves to pay for a cow. That too depends, as you say, on the buy. If you buy the cow at beef prices and you have feed and beef prices stay the same or go up, ONE calf is gravy and you made money just buying the cow.