Open Cows

[Lucky]

I know we've touched on this several times but would like to get y'alls thoughts again. What do you think is the biggest contributor to Open Cows? Nutrition, Age, Bulls, Bulls Fighting, Vaccinations, Abortions, Mineral Program, or anything else?

When it comes to budgeting for the cattle everyone always says feed cost is too high. While I agree with this every year when we figure what we should have made the biggest loss is in Open Cows or calves that didn't make it to sale. Live calves that don't make it are usually something I should have done better but at the same time we can't be there 24/7. Open Cows is the one that gets us every year. We are generally around 15% opens on a 90 day breeding season so closing this gap would be huge for us. Other than age there is no rhyme or reason to the opens that I can see. We tried culling all opens for years and have carried opens over with no change. This year we sold all the opens again and with the exception of 2 older Cows all were in excellent shape. What do y'all think or is this normal?

 

[u4411clb]

Hard to say if it is normal or not. But if a cow doesn’t bring in a calf she takes the calves place at sale time here. Do you have the setup to keep the heifers of the cows that consistently calf every year and on time as replacements? I know some don’t like raising their own but that is what brought consistency in calving and look for us.

 

[bird dog]

1. Nutrition
2. Minerals
3. Abortions from disease. Lepto or Trich?
4. Old cows may be late, but they will usually breed. My normally consistent old cows lose a month , sometimes two and that is the indication that they are done.

 

[Brute 23]

Genetics, knowing where you cattle came from.

Overgrazing. If you keep cattle in good grass your odds of a good calf are a lot better. You start trying to beat nature and you better be a nutritionist.

 

[moses388]

I AI-bred a few cows after the bull was pulled. One was the bull's grandma (boss cow?). She is big, but so is my bull. She calved early and was open long enough. Guess he just didn't want to breed her... Had a couple late-calvers (heifers) and I bred them. I don't think they were open long enough to breed before the bull was pulled.
My weaned heifers were looking kind of chubby. Blood tested them out of curiosity. One is pregnant. It has been a few months and I think it's too late to lute now. I'm hoping for the best...

 

[Travlr]

I know we've touched on this several times but would like to get y'alls thoughts again. What do you think is the biggest contributor to Open Cows? Nutrition, Age, Bulls, Bulls Fighting, Vaccinations, Abortions, Mineral Program, or anything else?

When it comes to budgeting for the cattle everyone always says feed cost is too high. While I agree with this every year when we figure what we should have made the biggest loss is in Open Cows or calves that didn't make it to sale. Live calves that don't make it are usually something I should have done better but at the same time we can't be there 24/7. Open Cows is the one that gets us every year. We are generally around 15% opens on a 90 day breeding season so closing this gap would be huge for us. Other than age there is no rhyme or reason to the opens that I can see. We tried culling all opens for years and have carried opens over with no change. This year we sold all the opens again and with the exception of 2 older Cows all were in excellent shape. What do y'all think or is this normal?

1. Genetics. People that keep replacements from unproven young cows. I'd rather have a replacement from a ten+ year old cow that is no longer the prettiest cow in the herd, than a replacement from the prettiest cow at five years old. The five year old may come up open the next year, but the ten year old has produced every year or it would have been culled.
2. Nutrition. A cow needs to have lost some weight over the winter and she needs to be gaining weight to breed well. Fat cows don't breed as well, and cows that are too skinny are busy staying alive instead of breeding.

I know there are places that need mineral supplementation. That's something you need to test for. You should be around 87-92% calf crop, live on the ground.

 

[Silver]

What is a normal amount of opens in your area, and how do you compare?
Your numbers are terrible for here, maybe not for your location. When do you breed? I would bet that intolerable heat you have down there could affect breed up.
The main factors I see here that affect breed up is cows condition, health, environment, and predators.

 

[ClinchValley86]

1. Genetics.
2. Nutrition. A cow needs to have lost some weight over the winter and she needs to be gaining weight to breed well. Fat cows don't breed as well, and cows that are too skinny are busy staying alive instead of breeding.

Agreed. I was going to ask how fat the opens were.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Nutrition and MINERAL.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Genetics. Select cows that thrive with minimal inputs.

 

[Dave]

There is a number of possible reasons why. One of the easiest and best cures is to ship every open cow asap. They cost money eating without producing a calf. Stop making excuses for your cows and pretty soon you will have a herd of cows who don't need excuses.

 

[Katpau]

If nutrition is adequate and cows are on a good mineral program, Dave is correct that the best way to improve your rate of conception is to ship every open cow. 15% on a 90 day calving window is much too high. I don't remember ever having that high, but we were higher in the past. We run about 5% open for the last few years. I have achieved this by shipping every single cow that is open after the bulls are removed at 60 days. I seldom have a calf born beyond 45 days either. I use to make excuses, such as "that was my favorite heifer", or "She gave me such a big calf last year", or "I paid a lot for that cow, so I will give her another chance". Sometimes the second chance paid off, and the cow went on to produce 10 more calves, but most ended up open again a few years later. About 10 years ago, I decided - no more second chances, and it has really paid off.

There are genetic defects that we can't see, because they cause early term abortion. The dairy industry has recognized this and identified some of the genes involved, but the beef cow industry has not had been as proactive. It is hard to recognize a defect that you never see, but a high percentage of open cows is an excellent clue. Get rid of your opens and you greatly reduce your chances of harboring that problem.

 

[Travlr]

the biggest loss is in Open Cows or calves that didn't make it to sale. Live calves that don't make it are usually something I should have done better but at the same time we can't be there 24/7.

So what is killing your calves?

 

[wbvs58]

I would say poorly performing bull followed by nutrition as the main cause. Disease causing abortion occurs occaisionally but tends to be in abortion storms when something is introduced to a herd with no immunity.
Heritability definitely can be improved by selection however I think it is also tied in with nutrition, the fertile cows will go straight back in calf even if they are down in condition a bit, the not so fertile don't take much to put them off their game.

Ken

 

[Lucky]

So what is killing your calves?

The usual stuff. We'll loose them to calving problems, sickness, had two get stomped last year because of Mexican Buzzards. It's just things that happen. We watch as close as possible and don't loose many. Lost two to calving difficulties this year. One was born dead and other I pulled but it didn't make it. Had one backwards yesterday. I think it'll be ok. We might loose 3-4% from calving until sale date which is around 15-16 months.

 

[Travlr]

The usual stuff. We'll loose them to calving problems, sickness, had two get stomped last year because of Mexican Buzzards. It's just things that happen. We watch as close as possible and don't loose many. Lost two to calving difficulties this year. One was born dead and other I pulled but it didn't make it. Had one backwards yesterday. I think it'll be ok. We might loose 3-4% from calving until sale date which is around 15-16 months.

This is another reason I like replacement heifers from older cows. And I like bulls from proven cows too.

 

[Lucky]

There is a number of possible reasons why. One of the easiest and best cures is to ship every open cow asap. They cost money eating without producing a calf. Stop making excuses for your cows and pretty soon you will have a herd of cows who don't need excuses.

I don't make excuses for them. I sold every open cow for years and bought the best replacement cattle I could. Results stayed the same. I will admit I am quilty of keeping one too long but once she's open we decide what to do based on other reasons. In '22 and '23 I kept the opens and they all bred back but open percentage stayed the same. We kept them because of our busy work schedules those years.

 

[Lucky]

This is another reason I like replacement heifers from older cows. And I like bulls from proven cows too.

Are you thinking calves won't get sick or a leg turned back during birth if the heifer is out of an older cow?

 

[Travlr]

Are you thinking calves won't get sick or a leg turned back during birth if the heifer is out of an older cow?

I think mothering ability is heritable. I'm not so sure about calf position, but I don't discount a possibility that cow families have more or less problems.

Maybe we should ask the forum. Out of any calving problems, other than first calf heifers... have you noticed any differences in dystocia related to age or lineage?

 

[Texas G@l]

I know we've touched on this several times but would like to get y'alls thoughts again. What do you think is the biggest contributor to Open Cows? Nutrition, Age, Bulls, Bulls Fighting, Vaccinations, Abortions, Mineral Program, or anything else?

When it comes to budgeting for the cattle everyone always says feed cost is too high. While I agree with this every year when we figure what we should have made the biggest loss is in Open Cows or calves that didn't make it to sale. Live calves that don't make it are usually something I should have done better but at the same time we can't be there 24/7. Open Cows is the one that gets us every year. We are generally around 15% opens on a 90 day breeding season so closing this gap would be huge for us. Other than age there is no rhyme or reason to the opens that I can see. We tried culling all opens for years and have carried opens over with no change. This year we sold all the opens again and with the exception of 2 older Cows all were in excellent shape. What do y'all think or is this normal?

What time of year are you trying to breed back??? Texas heat can make it hard to get cows settled .