On Farm Bull Test

[MikeC]

Decided not to enter any of the bull tests here this year. Has gotten way too expensive. So:

Sorted the weaned (for 2 months) bulls out today, weighed, gave the 2nd round of shots, and started on full feed along with grazing. Parked full feeder wagons in the bull pasture. Calves avg. about 850.

Per ton mix: 300 lbs. Cottonseed Hulls, 300 lbs. Oats, 200 lbs. Soyhull pellets. 1000 lbs. corn 50 lbs mineral, 50 lbs. calcium, 2.5 lbs. Bovatec, and 100 lbs. Molasses.
$120 delivered and augured in feeders.

Planning on feeding as such until Dec. 1

Have no way to calculate feed efficiency. If anyone has used the Cornell software for this calculation please give me your assessment of it. Of course, all the feedlots tell me it's really accurate, but I would like an unbiased opinion. Thanks.

 

[Larry Sansom]

Agree with you on the non use of a Bull test - have not wasted that $ for years. If you are grazing and feeding - I would think you should use a higher % soyhulls and less corn. Starch issue here - but if the grass is way down - then more corn will be ok.
Also really have heard horror stories of Cottonseed fed to bulls - seems some processors are OK and some not. Better check this - sure hate to feed a good bunch of bulls and ruin the semen production.

 

[MikeC]

Agree with you on the non use of a Bull test - have not wasted that $ for years. If you are grazing and feeding - I would think you should use a higher % soyhulls and less corn. Starch issue here - but if the grass is way down - then more corn will be ok.
Also really have heard horror stories of Cottonseed fed to bulls - seems some processors are OK and some not. Better check this - sure hate to feed a good bunch of bulls and ruin the semen production.

Larry, Not Cottonseed..........but Cottonseed Hulls.

The Auburn Univ. test I have been participating in calculates feed efficiency. Some customers want this info because they retain ownership. That was basically my main reason.

 

[farmer rich]

By feed efficiency I take it you mean feed conversion ratio or pounds of gain per unit of energy? Should be fairly easy to calculate knowing the weight of the ration fed and asuming you intend to regularly weigh the bulls.
Only drawback seems to be you will get an average FCR for the group, not each bull, which to me defeats the object of the calculation. The bulls with below average FCR will drag down the group, how do you then select animals with superior results for breeding?
The other drawback with going it alone is the results will not be indepdant, and though I am in no way questioning your honesty, this may be at the back of some buyers minds.

Hope it goes well for you though.

 

[MikeC]

By feed efficiency I take it you mean feed conversion ratio or pounds of gain per unit of energy? Should be fairly easy to calculate knowing the weight of the ration fed and asuming you intend to regularly weigh the bulls.
Only drawback seems to be you will get an average FCR for the group, not each bull, which to me defeats the object of the calculation. The bulls with below average FCR will drag down the group, how do you then select animals with superior results for breeding?
The other drawback with going it alone is the results will not be indepdant, and though I am in no way questioning your honesty, this may be at the back of some buyers minds.

Hope it goes well for you though.

The Cornell software mentioned will calculate "FCR" or "Feed Efficiency" (lbs. consumed vs. lb. of gain)for each individual calf given the input data.

One of the main reasons for the "On farm" test is to keep all the animals within the same contemporary group. Since approx. 50% will ratio below 100 and the end result (or final weight) is there, I don't figure honesty will come into play with reasonable people.

 

[bwranch]

MikeC,

Sorry, can't help you with the software. But to sidetrack the thread just a bit, I was wondering if you had considered using intake modifiers to limit feed during the test. This is sort of a naive view of things but assuming the technology works, then each animal would get the same amount of feed and you could calculate your efficiency just by weighing. I know the only test station we have left in the area, SIU-Carbondale went to an IM based system last year. Haven't heard anything good or bad about the results. Claims are that it will improve your forage usage also. Would appreciate thoughts on this, as I'm seriously considering using it this fall. We're pretty much forced into on farm testing here in MO as all of the local test stations have shut down.

Lee

 

[MikeC]

MikeC,

Sorry, can't help you with the software. But to sidetrack the thread just a bit, I was wondering if you had considered using intake modifiers to limit feed during the test. This is sort of a naive view of things but assuming the technology works, then each animal would get the same amount of feed and you could calculate your efficiency just by weighing. I know the only test station we have left in the area, SIU-Carbondale went to an IM based system last year. Haven't heard anything good or bad about the results. Claims are that it will improve your forage usage also. Would appreciate thoughts on this, as I'm seriously considering using it this fall. We're pretty much forced into on farm testing here in MO as all of the local test stations have shut down.

Lee

I have not seriously looked at the IM's. I'm kinda from the old school about feeding naturals to my animals. I don't even feed urea products.
Basically all I want is the cream to rise to the top without problems.
I will check into it though. Thanks

 

[greenwillowherefords]

I can't see how you could actually know for certain who was consuming more feed in the scenario you described.

 

[MikeC]

I can't see how you could actually know for certain who was consuming more feed in the scenario you described.

Who was this statement directed to? About the IM's? or the FE calculations?

 

[farmer rich]

I think Mike is trying to work out an average FCR for the group rather than per individual animal. Is this correct Mike?
This was the only real drawbak of doing it this way that I could see.

 

[dph]

Feed Efficiency: I hear a lot of people talking about it. I guy I think the world of told me once "studies show gain is so closely related to feed efficiency, I would rather see people concentrate on researching something else. If the bull gains well, he is effecient." Is this correct with your line of thinking?

 

[ollie]

Mike, check into calan gates for feed consumption recording. I don't know the price but In your case it might be the advantage you need to get them to your farm as customers.

 

[MikeC]

I think Mike is trying to work out an average FCR for the group rather than per individual animal. Is this correct Mike?
This was the only real drawbak of doing it this way that I could see.

I want to calculate FCR (Feed Efficiency) for each animal individually. Then I could average them for the group average.

 

[MikeC]

The Cornell Feed Efficiency Software will compute FCR for an individual animal in a group of animals given the data:

1- Number of lbs. of feed the group consumed per day.
2- ADG of each animal.
3- The frame score and ultrasound data on each animal.
4- Lab Analysis of feed.

 

[farmer rich]

The Cornell Feed Efficiency Software will compute FCR for an individual animal in a group of animals given the data:

1- Number of lbs. of feed the group consumed per day.
2- ADG of each animal.
3- The frame score and ultrasound data on each animal.
4- Lab Analysis of feed.

How does it do this without knowing individual intakes? or is feed efficiecy different from feed conversion ratio?

For example bull A consumes 8kg of feed per day and gains 1.4kg liveweight. Bull B consumes 8.5kg of feed per day but also gains 1.4kg liveweight. Bull A clearly has a better FCR than Bull B but they both eat an average of 8.25kg of feed to gain the same weight.
This gives both bulls a FCR of 5.89-1
Bull A actual FCR = 5.71-1
Bull B actual FCR = 6.07-1

 

[MikeC]

Farmer Rich:
How does it do this without knowing individual intakes? or is feed efficiency different from feed conversion ratio?
*****************************************

That is what the program calculates. Individual intakes. Therefore, calculating Feed Efficiency or FCR, as you call it.

How does it do it? I dunno, some sort of mathematical modeling.
I only know of feedlots that use it and was wondering if anyone had seen it used in a bull test situation.
I am neither advocating it's use nor condemning it's use.





[/quote]

 

[alabama]

Mike i don't see how it could be done.

 

[MikeC]

Decided not to enter any of the bull tests here this year. Has gotten way too expensive. So:

Sorted the weaned (for 2 months) bulls out today, weighed, gave the 2nd round of shots, and started on full feed along with grazing. Parked full feeder wagons in the bull pasture. Calves avg. about 850.

Per ton mix: 300 lbs. Cottonseed Hulls, 300 lbs. Oats, 200 lbs. Soyhull pellets. 1000 lbs. corn 50 lbs mineral, 50 lbs. calcium, 2.5 lbs. Bovatec, and 100 lbs. Molasses.
$120 delivered and augured in feeders.

Planning on feeding as such until Dec. 1

Have no way to calculate feed efficiency. If anyone has used the Cornell software for this calculation please give me your assessment of it. Of course, all the feedlots tell me it's really accurate, but I would like an unbiased opinion. Thanks.

Update on first 30 day period of test:

Bulls are averaging eating 18 lbs. per day each which comes to $1.08 per head per day in feed costs.

Very disapointed in ADG...bulls are only averaging 2.5 lbs. per day each. I attribute it to extremely hot and humid weather.

This only equates to 75 lbs of gain for each calf in this one month period.

Cost of gain = 43 cents per lb.(not including grass)

Feed efficiency average is not very good either.
7.2 lbs. of feed for 1 lb. of gain is VERY average.

Maybe it will cool off and I will have a better report next month.

 

[ollie]

Is their manuer very loose Mike. Doesn't seem like much protien.

 

[MikeC]

Is their manuer very loose Mike. Doesn't seem like much protien.

Works out to about 10.5%. Their manure is perfect.

Not quite firm but not runny and a good green color.