off to look at more bulls

[Red Bull Breeder]

If he got enough feed to be 1400 in 14 months he got enough to have muscle and guts. If it ain't there now it is not going to be.

 

[hillsdown]

I've had such a hard time finding anything but angus and brangus of any quality.

Would that suggest that Angus and Brangus are the best suited to your environment?

Manny breeds can be acclimated, if herfs and char do well in SA and Australia they will do well in Cypresses area.

Did you go through the list of registered char breeders from the association to get names in your area yet ?

 

[cypressfarms]

Would that suggest that Angus and Brangus are the best suited to your environment?

Anything with ear is best suited for my environment, but it doesn't mean that other breeds won't perfrom well. I doubt that any breed of bull would have performed well on the forage these guys had. It's not like he was on any type of feed test, that's for sure. I just got a call from the owner. A little background info on him: He's known my dad for years (they attend the same stockyard), and raised Charolais for years. He's getting out of the business because he's 77 years old and just doesn't have the energy to keep the operation going. He told my dad and I that he would normally sell 30+ bulls each year. This is an honest guy - he has no reason to not be; at his stage in life his integrity is more important than any bull. He knew my grandfather and great grandfather, and sat down with my dad and I to discuss "family".

He could tell that I thought the bull was "under fed" and I was trying to see the "potential" that was in front of me. Anyway, he just called my cell and made me an offer: I can take the bull now, put him on my pasture, see how he grows (since he's only a long yearling) and if I'm not 100% satisfied, he'll take the bull back no questions asked. I won't need this bull to breed until probably Feb 1, 2010 - so there's not much to lose. He even offered to re-emburse me for any feed I put in to him during the time if I'm not happy. This is an old cattleman, the type who you don't need to make a contract with, his word is better than any contract. Seems hard to pass up, especially since I have some steers that will be coming up front to get fed out for freezer beef. I could put him in with them. I'm interested to see what he'd look like as a 2 year old. He's definitely tall now, I'd like to see him fill in that frame. You never know.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I reckon on a deal like that you had better just go and get him.

 

[Katsdog]

Probably a little late posting this since it sounds like you've got a fair deal from the seller, but a guy named Griswold from around Dallas usually brings some really good Charolais bulls to the production sales in Dequincy every year. I'm not sure if he has papers on them or not but they are definitely some meat wagons. Ask Mike Dominique about him, he knows him and what he usually has. Mike should also know some breeders in La with good bulls.

 

[Beefy]

He'll do.

 

[cypressfarms]

Ask Mike Dominique about him, he knows him and what he usually has. Mike should also know some breeders in La with good bulls.

I did ask the mgr. of Dominiques stockyard in Baton Rouge. He did give me the name of a couple of farms, but all of them cater to seedstock type people. I'm not going to spend $3500 to $5000 on a commerical bull.

I still have one more bull to buy, trying to decide between a hereford and a simmi. I do have one simmi that looks o.k.- we'll see.

 

[hillsdown]

I reckon on a deal like that you had better just go and get him.

:nod:

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

He's got the capacity there. He is narrow but that's nothing for a charolais you want to use on heifers. We had a similar type steer actually a few years ago (not saying he should be steered, just that the 'type' is the same) That started looking skinny but by the time the show came around he was beautiful, even won a heavy weight division. Even though he lacks the width, he'll still put meat on your calves to make up for it. Take him, put him on some feed and let him do his work.

 

[blackgloves]

$1500 bucks? Id take him

 

[kenny thomas]

Is he polled? If so buy him. You can decide by breeding time if you really like him and you have the 100% satisfaction to back it up. You don't have anything to loose. Should do good with the Longhorns.

 

[3waycross]

Sounds like a deal that's hard to beat. Worst case you send him back and maybe don't stop looking in the mean time.

 

[KNERSIE]

Deal sounds good, I still don't think he's the type I would use to compliment longhorn cows, though.

I agree with Red Bull Breeder is he is 1400lbs at 14 months he had enough to eat to express muscle and the poorer the quality forage the more gut you'd expect.

Just a question... he is pretty much a very late maturing package that will only express himself at a later age, not much doubt about that. Longhorns are also leggy light muscled later maturing cattle, is the combined genetics of this bull and longhorn cows really what your market want?

 

[Keren]

tbh I wouldnt use him, or pay that much for him.

Its all well and good to take a 14 mo bull home, put the feed to him and see how he grows out as a 2 yr old.

But I think if you think that way, you are missing the point.

Firstly, a good bull you shouldnt need to "put the feed to him" for him to look decent. Now I'm not saying they should look in show condition, but they should look reasonable, on mum's milk, pasture, and if there's no pasture, hay. I have 9 mth old British breed bull calves that are more masculine, thicker and more muscled than this guy, and that is on mum's milk and grass, no creep and the mums arent being fed. They are only tasting grain now to get them onto the show circuit.

Secondly, do you really want a bull who only matures at 2 yrs old? Are you only going to slaughter his steer calves at 2 yrs old? If you are looking for a terminal sire, you need him to look SPOT ON at the age which his sons will be slaughtered - for me, that is right around 12 - 14 months. So any terminal bull I use needs to look good at 12 - 14 mths.

 

[KNERSIE]

If you are looking for a terminal sire, you need him to look SPOT ON at the age which his sons will be slaughtered - for me, that is right around 12 - 14 months. So any terminal bull I use needs to look good at 12 - 14 mths.

That's how I see it as well. For any bull to stay intact I ask myself whether he will sire desireable calves for his potential buyer's market. Many seedstock producers will tell you a bull shouldn't look that great as a yearling otherwise he has limited growth potential. I say BS, that is when his offspring needs to be finished in the real world, hardly any point in siring calves that won't finish in the desired timeframe.

Cypress, if you had a herd of lowlines, squaremeaters, or 1960's herefords or even angus cows this bull might have been just what you need, on brangus type and longhorn cows, I think you need to look at an earlier maturing package.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Secondly, do you really want a bull who only matures at 2 yrs old? Are you only going to slaughter his steer calves at 2 yrs old? If you are looking for a terminal sire, you need him to look SPOT ON at the age which his sons will be slaughtered - for me, that is right around 12 - 14 months. So any terminal bull I use needs to look good at 12 - 14 mths.

My feelings exactly; A bull needs to express great beef caracteristics at the same age his sons are to be slaughtered. If the bull becomes a real meatwagon after his growing stops years later, it is good when you slaughter the specific bull but does not help his progeny much.

I think there are even better terminal breeds for longhorn and beefmaster herds. These two breeds needs only to be complimented with muscle, because they have everything else. How about a limo?

 

[cypressfarms]

Cypress, if you had a herd of lowlines, squaremeaters, or 1960's herefords or even angus cows this bull might have been just what you need, on brangus type and longhorn cows, I think you need to look at an earlier maturing package.

The longhorns I have are just a novelty of sorts, and I also bought them because they were so cheap - they definitely are not the majority of my herd. The majority of cows that this bull would potentially breed are beefmasters, and they are not a slow maturing breed. I think the charolais/beefmaster cross is a very interesting one - yellow calves that are very growthy. That's just what brought the most per pound over the last couple of months around here. The only reason for putting the longhorns in with the char. is to get the most from the longhorn cow. I don't think that they would perform as good with my Angus plus bull.

 

[Brandonm22]

Cypress, if you had a herd of lowlines, squaremeaters, or 1960's herefords or even angus cows this bull might have been just what you need, on brangus type and longhorn cows, I think you need to look at an earlier maturing package.

It really depends on what he wants to do with his calves. I am ~close enough to Cypress's country to infer a lot about his market from our market. I am not in love with THAT Char but in theory using a Char works in this situation. The order buyers dock Longhorn calves and calves showing ear. They typically pay a little premium for Char calves. Hopefully the calves look more Char than Longhorn. IF Cypress is like most folks in the south, he sells his calves straight off the cow at weaning or after a 30-60 day preconditioning phase. The big heavy calves ~600+++ lbs ride a truck to a feedlot either in West Texas or go up north to Kansas, Iowa, or Nebraska. The liteweight calves ~ less than 500 lbs typically go to a backgrounder or a stocker who will put them on winter annuals on cropland or they go to Oklahoma or Texas to graze summer pastures. When they get up to 700-800 lbs they will go on to the feedlots (there are now some people who will put calves as lite as 300 lbs in the feedlots too) for a 100 to 200 days of high energy concentrated ration. Both groups (the feedlots and the stockers are usually shooting for growth). My point is there is a pretty brisk market for those growthy, late maturing type calves that can hang a 1400 pound carcass and still be a Yield Grade 2 (~2/10s of an inch of backfat). I don't believe the Longhorn cows can do that bred to anything; but it is very doable for the Beefmaster and Brangus cows. Just don't keep ANY of the heifers and I think this will work out well. Now if we were running that bull on Beefmaster type cows in someplace like Brazil where they grass finish I would have real concerns about the calves taking too long too finish.

 

[irked]

all of the talk about producing calves that reach slaughter weights at 12-14 months might be good for the purebred breeder who likes to chase larger and larger numbers. and it's surely good for the feedlot manager whose job it is to sell corn. calf-feds that come in weighing 500-600 and can be pushed hard to slaughter as yearlings surely make him more money than cattle that come in at heavier weights and require less time on feed. but with the paradigm shift within the cattle industry the last few years due to corn prices, those cattle aren't necessarily more profitable for ranchers. the last few years have seen graziers have the opportunity to buy calves at weaning in the fall and sell them 200-300 pounds heavier without facing any rollback in price on their inweights. sometimes they can even be bought for less per pound than they can be sold for as yearlings. weaning calves and taking them to around 800 pounds on your own grass and selling them as yearlings will likely return a lot more to your bottom line. as long as corn remains at these price levels or higher, a growthy bull like this one should be a money maker for anybody interested in doing that.

 

[alacattleman]

Deal sounds good, I still don't think he's the type I would use to compliment longhorn cows, though.I agree with Red Bull Breeder is he is 1400lbs at 14 months he had enough to eat to express muscle and the poorer the quality forage the more gut you'd expect.

Just a question... he is pretty much a very late maturing package that will only express himself at a later age, not much doubt about that. Longhorns are also leggy light muscled later maturing cattle, is the combined genetics of this bull and longhorn cows really what your market want?

and i sure would hate too run the wheels of my rig too find one that did.... sound like your having too make a silk purse out of a sows ear..