Ochs Bros. (Herefords)

[WichitaLineMan]

This was being touched on but thought I'd start a dedicated thread.

I would love to hear opinions on their cattle and how they worked or didn't for others.

I went to two Ochs sales in the late nineties. At the first sale, I spent an hour the the evening before the sale with Ken and a few other commercial cattleman as Ken was going through the sale bulls with us. He seemed to be a very knowledgeable cattleman. The bulls were very impressive. The length and width of which I have yet to see matched.

The thing that always struck me was how they were not afraid to say their cows weighed 2000 lbs and then would publish the weaning weights and lots of them would be in the 400-500 pound range. I could never get past this. I never bought a bull from them.

One of the cattleman in the group I was in that evening was also a Texan. He ranched around Albany, Texas and ran a lot of Ochs bulls. I visited his place and the bulls that matured in Texas (after being bought at 18 months in Colorado) matured very nicely. Not 2800 lbs but big 2000-2200 pound bulls with lots of meat. His straight hereford cows which he said carried a lot of Ochs blood probably only weighed around 1300-1400 pounds.

At the time, I was strictly a commercial breeder with a solid black cow herd and was not totally weaned from the bigger, better, faster EPD line of thinking (getting there but still hanging on). The first Hereford bulls I ever used ended up coming from Jamison's in Kansas.

Now that I am dabbling in the registered Hereford business the thought has crossed my mind to try (via AI) one of those Ochs bulls out. I just love the phenotype on a lot of their bulls. I am just concerned over the size issue. I have heard (not seen) that the herd is not doing as well under present management in New Mexico.

I have a couple of other little asides to this story that I will get to later or if someone asks something that pertains to it.

 

[Hereford76]

which bull of theirs are u going to AI to or possibly AI to?

Just spoke with a current customer of that herd last night looking to buy registered females and he said he has been very happy with the bulls he has purchased out of there.

Used to see Ken every year up at Fenton's sale - he was never outbid on his pick.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

I haven't given it real serious thought. Here is a little list of decent bulls:

Std Lad 14Z
Std Lad 95J
OB Joyful
Stanmore 43K
Duracell 30X
OB Fancy
46E (you don't know anyone with semen on him do you?)
Stanmore 2A
Praire Lad 48D
Twin L Std 1A

I saw this bull sell (I like him):
http://harpercattle.com/sires/806.html

 

[Northern Rancher]

I've never been out there myself but friends who have say the cattle are for sure big. Didn't they buy Jim Hole's cowherd up here? They are too big for my deal but that's just me.

 

[Aaron]

I've never been out there myself but friends who have say the cattle are for sure big. Didn't they buy Jim Hole's cowherd up here? They are too big for my deal but that's just me.

Yes, Jim's herd formed a large part of their herd. As far as being big, they were the only ones I knew of for years that consistently raised/bought bulls that matured over 3000 lbs. I think one of their smallest was maybe Duracell and he was around the 2800 lb mark. I always did enjoy reading their ads in the Hereford mags though. :cowboy:

 

[Hereford76]

I haven't given it real serious thought. Here is a little list of decent bulls:

Std Lad 14Z
Std Lad 95J
OB Joyful
Stanmore 43K
Duracell 30X
OB Fancy
46E (you don't know anyone with semen on him do you?) I got some - actually going to breed an old cow to that bull this spring and hopefuly flush to him down the road - the cows i have in mind to flush to 46E are just too young yet. found some semen on a really good old bull too here recently - would be the sire of our old 8D bull.... going to wait to use any of that on a flush down the road.
Stanmore 2A
Praire Lad 48D
Twin L Std 1A

I saw this bull sell (I like him):
http://harpercattle.com/sires/806.html

i kinda like that bull too - had visited with their manager last spring and almost bought some.

 

[Idaman]

I may not be welcome breaking in here and I never went to an Ochs sale but I did see a lot of their bulls around. For my commercial range they were just too big.
I remember seeing one at Fox Herefords in the mid-nineties that I'll swear his head would have weighed over 400 lbs.

I had a neighbor in Canada that used Hole bulls exclusively and his cows were only moderate sized at about 1100 lbs.

I am not downing any of the Canadian cattle as I have used them almost exclusively for 30 years. I have used some very big bulls (a son of Voltage 80S, two sons of Chris Jacobsens 2000 lb. cow, one was large but the other was only moderate sized) but they didn't move my cows that much.

I have used Canadian bulls that were mostly long gone but were proven herd fixers in a certain area. I have a semen tank almost full of old forgotten bulls that were popular prior to the 1990s, some going back to 1969 if I remember correctly.
Besides the 80S bull we used 68K, 31T, and 85B. This year we are using the 31T bull as we have some eight year old daughters that aren't too big but are absolutely fantastic cows for our conditions. I certainly would like to get some more 31T semen as I only have a few vials left.

The Ochs cattle would, in my opinion, be good for one shot or two but linebreeding them might end up with some very big cattle.

 

[JHH]

Just a question. With 1800 lb cow weights and bulls being 2800 lbs they have to be a later maturing type? is that right? Why would you want to wait till three yr old to have a calf? Or do they normally mature like the smaller framed ones? Just questioning the big more rugged type as these are. Although I did have a Duracell granddaughter she would only wean a 350 lb calf and stay fat doing it. Therefore she is gone because she was putting everthing on her back not in her calf.

I am sure there is a place for them. Just dont know if that would include my place.

 

[alacattleman]

Just a question. With 1800 lb cow weights and bulls being 2800 lbs they have to be a later maturing type? is that right? Why would you want to wait till three yr old to have a calf? Or do they normally mature like the smaller framed ones? Just questioning the big more rugged type as these are. Although I did have a Duracell granddaughter she would only wean a 350 lb calf and stay fat doing it. Therefore she is gone because she was putting everthing on her back not in her calf.
I am sure there is a place for them. Just dont know if that would include my place.

how was she grown out,,, that can ruin a good prospect

 

[JHH]

Just a question. With 1800 lb cow weights and bulls being 2800 lbs they have to be a later maturing type? is that right? Why would you want to wait till three yr old to have a calf? Or do they normally mature like the smaller framed ones? Just questioning the big more rugged type as these are. Although I did have a Duracell granddaughter she would only wean a 350 lb calf and stay fat doing it. Therefore she is gone because she was putting everthing on her back not in her calf.
I am sure there is a place for them. Just dont know if that would include my place.

how was she grown out,,, that can ruin a good prospect

The calf? She seems ok at best. She had twins last year and raised them herself. Here is the only pic I have of her.

 

[alacattleman]

no the duracell cow,,, did you raise her or purchase her?

 

[Northern Rancher]

A ton cow weaning a 500 pound calf is like pulling a two horse trailer with a peterbuilt. Big late maturing cattle of any breed remind me too much of draft horses.

 

[alacattleman]

A ton cow weaning a 500 pound calf is like pulling a two horse trailer with a peterbuilt. Big late maturing cattle of any breed remind me too much of draft horses.

thats right... but a big cow that only weans 350 pounder,,, something aint right in the milk factory.. like she might have been fed pretty hard during those tender years :cowboy:

 

[Northern Rancher]

Those kind of Hereford cows made it easy for Angus to steal market share-too bad the black breeders decided to take on Jersey's next!!!

 

[KNERSIE]

Just a question. With 1800 lb cow weights and bulls being 2800 lbs they have to be a later maturing type? is that right? Why would you want to wait till three yr old to have a calf?

Jay, although there is a correlation, the late maturity refers to carcass maturity and not sexual maturity.

 

[JHH]

no the duracell cow,,, did you raise her or purchase her?

Purchased her ( bred heifer) Had the cow that I posted a pic of. I didnt keep any other of her offspring.

And she was a Granddaughter not a daughter. I like the looks of those cows just think they are to big.

 

[JHH]

Just a question. With 1800 lb cow weights and bulls being 2800 lbs they have to be a later maturing type? is that right? Why would you want to wait till three yr old to have a calf?

Jay, although there is a correlation, the late maturity refers to carcass maturity and not sexual maturity.

Thanks Knersie that was what I was wanting to know. That helps a little.