No Vaccination Herd

[Kelly]

About 10 years ago when we had the vet out on a call. We wanted to vaccinate and she said there was no reason for it since we had a closed herd.
But we started vaccinating anyways a couple years after that.
How many of you vaccinate for Pink Eye and is it even worth it? Does it help?
Does vaccinating with the Bangs shot increase the value of the calves? Our state does not require it.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Have a friend who subscribes to this method. He doesn't vaccinate or de-worm. Occasionally, if he thinks of it, he'll hit 'em once with a Blackleg shot, says "one is all ya need". This year he lost 2 calves and 1 cow for unknown reasons. Last year he lost one calf and had a cow slip a calf for unknown reasons. He has had a year here and there without any losses, but its rare. His calves, overall, bring less at the market than others in their age/weight classifications.

While Virginia is a Brucellosis-free state, I still have my replacements get their Bang's vaccine. My thinking being that all it takes is one 'positive' in this state.

I will vaccinate, and do boosters. I review my herd health management annually with the Vet, and vaccinate accordingly. I see vaccines as cheap insurance as well.

Where I work, they also do the Bang's vaccine and a whole host of any and everything that can be vaccinated for including various strains of Salmonella. A bit overboard perhaps, but that's their preferred method.

Katherine

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Just another thought...

Texas has some rather strict laws now about transporting cattle in or out of state... that said,

Since our sales are interstate, we have a comprehensive vaccination program as well as have a TAHC certified herd. This (along with protecting our cattle) just adds to our marketability across State lines.

Occasionally, we have a sale to a State that requires additional vaccinations and/or lab tests. Our Vet contacts that state before he issues traveling papers for the animal(s) going to that State and takes any necessary actions.

 

[frenchie]

We didn't do any vaccies other than blackleg on the calves. UNTIL, we bought a bunch of bred heifers, and the next summer one went down with BVD(persistent infection). Never had a problem before that (or so we thought) but we vaccinated everything the next spring before breeding. .

Did you do the tissue test(ear notch) too.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Aplus - adult cattle (not sure but think horses are the same) become "immune" to a degree against heavy worm infestation. So your horses may be fat and sassy because they don't have any worm problem, or maybe because their maintenance level (adult) is so low, the worms they have is not affecting their condition.
Bigbull - how long ago was the vaccine bad?? This is not very common, and since Pfizer covered it, why is it an issue?
I vaccinate, booster, deworm, Calfhood vaccinate - and will do anything recommended.
Have you ever had one get sick - not die - just get SICK? The cost of TREATMENT for one calf can probably pay for the preventative vaccines - let alone the frustration and labor intensive time to get them healthy. And they may never be healthy (truly) the rest of their lives.
I'm not saying that by vaccinating, you WON'T have a sick animal, but they will be far less, and will respond to treatment better than non-vaccinates.
And, let me remind everyone, just because you "stabbed" vaccine into an animal does not mean they will have immunity. Vaccines have to be handled properly, get boosters timely if needed, animals have to be healthy when receiving vaccines, and have proper nutrition - otherwise your "psssing" in the wind.
YES - I vaccinate - many times. Calves get two sets of shots prior to weaning (MLV) and another set after weaning (MLV). Cows get MLV prior to breeding & all get dewormed twice. Probably you name it - they get it!

 

[aplusmnt]

My main motivation for this thread was not really about saving money. I got to thinking based on something my wife and me were talking about in regards flu shots. She works in the medical field so they have to go through certain vaccinations either mandatory or suggested.

But some people believe that if you get vaccinations for everything you are not allowing your body to build up its own Virus fighting capabilities. Some people believe you will be stronger in the end and have better immunities to disease and viruses if you avoid the vaccinations such as flu shots.

Got me thinking about Cattle could we actually be weakening cattle in the long run by giving them so many drugs. Would a calf grow to be a stronger cow if you did not fill them full of so many drugs. And would they pass this on to their offspring so if you are running a closed herd by survival of the fittest theory would you end up with a stronger healthier herd by not vaccinating?

Just some wondering thought I come up with while spending the long nights with my boring self :lol:

 

[randiliana]

Did you do the tissue test(ear notch) too.

No we didn't. The vet we contacted about it said her symptoms were BVD. He said he was 99% sure of the diagnosis but could do a blood test if we wanted. Plus we had been having a number of dinky, really scrubby poor doing calves. The year after the vaccinations, and to this day we have had no calves with the same symptoms.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You only build immunities to what you are exposed. So, in real human life, if you live in a bubble, you won't have any immunities. If you have a closed herd, with no vaccinations, your herd will build virtually NO IMMUNITIES, so if they get the slightest exposure to any bug (neighbors sick calf gets in your fileds) ALL you cattle, cows/calves/bulls would probably get sick.
I would rather get a shot, than get exposed and catch a flu so that I had better immunity. :shock:
Yes, closed herds have a better chance of surviving a "no vaccination" program - UNTIL they get exposure. And in this world, how many herds are truly closed. Never have a truck from another farm, drive in you fields. Never have a set of boots from another farm walk your pastures. Lets get real.
Exposure is inevitable, and if you have no immunity, you are most likely going to get REAL sick.
Remember - no exposure - no immunity. It just doesn't "develop" over the years.

 

[aplusmnt]

You only build immunities to what you are exposed. So, in real human life, if you live in a bubble, you won't have any immunities. If you have a closed herd, with no vaccinations, your herd will build virtually NO IMMUNITIES, so if they get the slightest exposure to any bug (neighbors sick calf gets in your fileds) ALL you cattle, cows/calves/bulls would probably get sick.
I would rather get a shot, than get exposed and catch a flu so that I had better immunity. :shock:
Yes, closed herds have a better chance of surviving a "no vaccination" program - UNTIL they get exposure. And in this world, how many herds are truly closed. Never have a truck from another farm, drive in you fields. Never have a set of boots from another farm walk your pastures. Lets get real.
Exposure is inevitable, and if you have no immunity, you are most likely going to get REAL sick.
Remember - no exposure - no immunity. It just doesn't "develop" over the years.

The way I have always understood it is our immune system was not designed to be infected with a virus to protect us from a virus. God made us long before there was flu shots. He gave our body the power to develop and strengthen our immunity system. If you have not impaired your immune system by injecting so many foreign and un needed viruses into it, it will most generally naturally do its job. We are more apt to impair it and weaken our system.

Never had a flu shot, no one in my family has had one and I would say you could count on maybe two fingers between all 5 of us in past twenty years ever getting the flu. Our immune system is like a muscle it can be strengthened to do its job by itself if we do not impair it with foreign chemicals. No one in my family gets a cold either. I can really never remember me wife or kids having a cold ever. I am sure it has happened but I can not recollect it.

Ours or a Cows immune system might not be immune to a certain virus if it has never been subjected to it, but if we have not impaired our God given system could it be that it would quickly fight the virus and possibly not get sick or as sick as say a human or animal that impaired their system buy putting countless un needed viruses and Chemicals into their system?

 

[aplusmnt]

I probably did not describe above what I was trying to get at because I could not recollect the difference but after looking it up.

We have an "innate immune system" that kicks in and fights viruses and bacteria etc....When we first come into contract with it. You do not have to have been exposed to it before your body will start fighting it. This is the part I am most concerned to impair and damage or weaken. It is a very delicate system.

Then we have an "adaptive immune system" this is the one that recalls past exposure and strengthens each time it comes into contact with that specific virus, bacteria. This is the area that a flu shot is suppose to help in. Even though they really do not know what specific strain it will be you get so it is a crap shoot rather you get the proper immunity to it anyway.




Do you want any of the following vaccine constituents in YOUR bloodstream?

Ingredients contained in a flu shot.

Ethylene glycol (antifreeze)

Phenol, also known as carbolic acid (this is used as a disinfectant, dye)

Formaldehyde, a known cancer-causing agent

Aluminum, which is associated with Alzheimer's disease and seizures and also cancer producing in laboratory mice (it is used as an additive to promote antibody response)

Thimerosal (a mercury disinfectant/preservative) can result in brain injury and autoimmune disease

Neomycin and Streptomycin (used as antibiotics) have caused allergic reaction in some people.

Vaccines are also grown and strained through animal or human tissue like monkey kidney tissue, chicken embryo, embryonic guinea pig cells, calf serum, and human diploid cells (the dissected organs of aborted human fetuses as in the case of rubella, hepatitis A, and chickenpox vaccines).

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I'm not arguing one way or the other as to getting a human flu shot. I have never had one.
But, the "innate immune system" must be the "health" of our body. Right foods, plenty of rest, exercise, blah, blah. Just like I said about vacc cattle. They must be healthy & on a proper nutrition for the vacc to be very helpful.
I STONGLY believe that we are creating children with a poor developing natural immune system, because we are "protecting" them from all "bugs". Antibacterial this antibact. that - from soaps to cutting boards. I have seen doctors on TV explaining that this is bad for our children, but it's not as exciting as killing bugs.
I can remember Grandmothers saying "Oh they need to eat a peck of dirt in their lifetime to be healthy". Well, I think there is a lot of truth to that "ole wife's tale".
We are creating our own little "bubble" world for kids & it's going to come back & bite us.