rk
Well-known member
Maybe eliminated is better word.....if an infection recurrs over time, doesn't it make sense to seek the root cause? How else to do this w/o traceability?Bluestem":tj156r2b said:
NIAS Identification System
- Thread starter cowboyFFA_09
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With traceability it will be much easier to eliminate the root cause. Now do we eliminate that herd? Should we eliminate joining herds? By elimination we assume we know the cause and effects. I stick by my previous post. Use the money we are going to spend( which includes the cost of lost herds in the future) on ID to find a cure. If you register, you become a Experimental Research station for the USDA. Rereading what I've wrote, "cure" might not be the best word to use. But "elimination" does not "cure".rk":3g6asv32 said:
SEC
Well-known member
Just view the program like keeping good books. Up here we were a little shy of the idea at first, now we're in the swing of it.
Price of the tags is just the biggest pain right now. Plus, most people tag cows/ bulls that are going for slaughter as they are going to market. Commercial calves get done as they are born, just simpler or at least at branding time.
Amidst all of the pain, I do believe it's a good thing as it brings accountability to everyone. I have nothing to hide and I don't want to be pulled down if some jerk has decided that he is going to break the rules. I haven't heard any stories like that but there are rulebreakers everywhere. Secondly, I wish they would test everything as then it don't matter if a cow had BSE she would never get into the feed chain.
Consumer confidence is what this is all about. If they feel better so do I!
I am not sure what we can really go with our corrupt packing industry. I had a cattle buyer tell me he liked it better when the mafia controlled the industry. He said now it's way past criminal.
I would like to see farm groups work on that rather than being protectionists!
Price of the tags is just the biggest pain right now. Plus, most people tag cows/ bulls that are going for slaughter as they are going to market. Commercial calves get done as they are born, just simpler or at least at branding time.
Amidst all of the pain, I do believe it's a good thing as it brings accountability to everyone. I have nothing to hide and I don't want to be pulled down if some jerk has decided that he is going to break the rules. I haven't heard any stories like that but there are rulebreakers everywhere. Secondly, I wish they would test everything as then it don't matter if a cow had BSE she would never get into the feed chain.
Consumer confidence is what this is all about. If they feel better so do I!
I am not sure what we can really go with our corrupt packing industry. I had a cattle buyer tell me he liked it better when the mafia controlled the industry. He said now it's way past criminal.
I would like to see farm groups work on that rather than being protectionists!
rk
Well-known member
Are you saying we don't know the cause of BSE??? Somebody, somewhere, or something is causing BSE. If you eliminate the cause, is that not a cure?Bluestem":1xju1b9x said:
"Somebody, somewhere, or something is causing BSE." All good questions. I wish we would spend some money answering them. Instead of the feel good animal ID idea. Not to steal this thread, but here is a few areas I would be looking into. 1. A better test. Surly we can figure out a way to test live animals and if the animal is infected find it at a younger age. 2. Is BSE transmitted to off-spring? Can it be transmitted to other animals. If so, how. 3. Can the ground be contaminated by an infected animal. And can an animal be infected from that ground. Is the manure from an infected animal safe to be around. 4. They still sell Blood meal and bone meal for use as a fertilizer. If an animal were infected with BSE would the Blood meal and bone meal be safe to use. Will it contaminate the ground? I could go on, but you get the idea. The millons that will be spent every year on Animal ID should be spent on research.
SEC
Well-known member
I would agree but FORTUNATELY this has forced to have better record keeping! I believe there is something good coming out of something bad all of the time.
We don't know what causes BSE, let alone proving that people are actually sick from it.
Funny as we know what we know about chemical sprays and etc and yet very few worry about eating the fruits and veggies that comes from areas where chemical use is high.
Everyone has to tell us that it is not harmful because if it did it would throw the Agricultural world in a tail spin!
We don't know what causes BSE, let alone proving that people are actually sick from it.
Funny as we know what we know about chemical sprays and etc and yet very few worry about eating the fruits and veggies that comes from areas where chemical use is high.
Everyone has to tell us that it is not harmful because if it did it would throw the Agricultural world in a tail spin!
cmjust0":3uf02sy7 said:Bluestem":3uf02sy7 said:
Agreed 100%! I think it's high time for a roll call on NAIS.
What I think is that if *everyone* here could manage to find their nads long enough to stand up and be counted, the gung-ho "make it mandatory" crowd would find themselves severely outnumbered by folks who know they don't have to suckle at the federal tit to get their problems solved..
"Oh, ever-fair and benevolent government, I'll blindly do whatever you ask if you'll keep my market from the peril I learned about in your propaga.., errr, brochures!"retty:
:lol: :roll:
How do I feel about NAIS? I have mixed feelings about NAIS - I think it would be a good thing provided it does what it's supposed to do and can provide an accurate traceback system that will allow us to get BSE under control - but I'm not sure NAIS will do that, mainly because it will be under the jurisdiction of one of the most incompetent government agencies I've seen in quite a while. There is also the issue of too many people feeding things that - while they might not be illegal - are certainly not acceptable feed for ruminents, but are being fed simply because they are cheap. There have been a couple of threads about these feeds on these boards. Perhaps if NAIS were instituted that question could be answered once and for all, those feeds would be declared illegal, and the loophole would be closed. That having been said, I would bet my life that BSE is a bigger problem in the US than any of us have any clue about - nor do I believe our BSE problem has anything to do with Canada - as we were feeding animal protien right along with a number of other countries. I'm relatively certain that a lady whom I knew for a number of years died of vCVJ back in the time frame of about 1999-2000 - 3-4 YEARS before our so-called 'first' BSE case, which was confirmed to be an import from Canada. Why am I so certain? Because this lady was a very good friend of my mother's - worked with her for many years, in fact. One day, during the course of a conversation, this lady mentioned to my mother that she recently had the best meal she had had in quite a while - fresh scrambled cow brains and eggs. Within a few months following that meal, this lady started giving my mother things to keep for her - keys, papers, things that were important to her job as an elementary school principle - when asked for an explanation of her actions, she stated that she was getting 'forgetful'. Approximately a year later, this lady was dead from a 'brain virus'. Coincidence? I don't think so. Just my thoughts.
rk
Well-known member
Testing live animals may keep them out of the food chain, but it will add alot of cost and do nothing to cure BSE. In the event of a BSE animal, traceback is needed to determine when/how infection occurred. You can test all you want, but w/o traceback, it's a situation of reaction, not proaction. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.Bluestem":ambu42yp said:
As far as traceback is concerned, fmd is a bigger issue than BSE. Talk to someone from a country that's recently dealt w/ fmd....it's devastating. Traceback can help minimize the impact of a contagious disease and make it easier and quicker to contain.
I don't see how trace back will help with FMD. When it hits its going to spread so fast that we are going to have to work on containment, the heck with where it started. The industry has change since the last outbreak in this country. When FMD hits this time, these large feed lots are going to have a bad time. They may have animals from thousands of different farms/ranches. Who is going to go through the pile of dead animals scanning for ID? I guess what I'm saying is you have more faith in animal ID than I.
SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE
Well-known member
I will do it when I have to. I already have a premesis ID, that I think is bad enough.I would be more agreeable with the whole thing if they would also enforce COOL. ;-) :cboy:
Oldtimer
Well-known member
SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE":1mtzhg4t said:
SFMG-- I agree with you 100%... I also have the ID #, but in talking with local cattle buyers have had none reassure me that the prices given this fall will be worth the $3 cost per tag...If its not worth it why do it?
And M-COOL will be much more beneficial to the US producers and consumers than M-ID is........
rk
Well-known member
In the event of fmd, I want every tool available for containment. Traceback is definitely one of those tools.Bluestem":2n35suw0 said:
rk":2kxy4mih said:
In the event of fmd, I want a VACCINE. FMD Vaccines have been around for decades, but they stopped using them because the old FMD diagnosis tests couldn't tell the difference between the infection and the vaccine.. False positives, in other words.. I've heard that there are new tests which *can* tell the difference...
If FMD breaks out in the US, I'll bet you $100 that a vaccine appears out of thin air.
cowboyFFA_09
Well-known member
Well blustem, do you think the government (or somebody) is not spending money to help find the "Root Cause" of the disease. The Identification system is, just to me, a way to put more confidence into the consumer. And by the way, can somebody tell me how much the tags are going to cost me? Oh and im a little behind on the post.Thanks
Millerlite :cboy:
Millerlite :cboy:
cowboyFFA_09":130juemi said:
I'll take a crack at that (though you didn't ask. :lol: ) I doubt they're looking very hard for a 'root cause' of BSE, given that incidence rates of BSE are dropping by 50%/year worldwide and have been for quite some time now.. Even with all the loopholes, the feedbans have clearly been effective. Won't be long before everybody involved declares it a non issue -- Asia included.
And like I said before, FMD can be prevented with a vaccine.. We don't vaccinate right now because we can call ourselves "FMD free," and it makes us look better.. If we have an FMD outbreak, producers will start vaccinating for it just like they vaccinate for everything else...
Personally, I don't think NAIS has much at all to do with traceback, 'herd safety,' or disease control... I think it's got to do with the USDA burying the small, independent cattle raiser in red tape in an effort to consolidate the beef industry into a few big outfits.. It's been happening in chicken and pork for the last several decades; why people don't believe it can happen to beef is beyond me..
Personally, I think it's just a matter of time..
I do not think we are researching all the ramifications of BSE. More or less hoping it just goes away. You state"The identification system is a way to put more confidence into the consumer". So animal ID is really a marketing tool? As I said in my first post, animal ID should be market driven. If your market has lost confidence in your product and you think animal ID will restore that confidence, then ID. But don't force those of us trying to develop other markets to pay for your marketing plan. As I stated in a previous post my herd is not a national herd and I resent it being thought of as such.cowboyFFA_09":1qbqeqy2 said:
Tags right now cost 2-4 dollars each. Don't complain to me when they put a large tax on that tag price to pay for the marketing plan. A question, what do you do when a animals or two has lost a tag? Run them through the chute and guess?
Bluestem":2wi1o24w said:
Agreed, 100%..
However, I think USDA's problem with that has a little something to do with the *fact* that beef ain't exactly expiring on grocery store shelves... They know the markets won't demand ID, so they want to cram it down everybody's throat..
That's why I keep going back to the question of *why* they want it so bad... They've made it clear that NAIS has been a collaboration between government and so-called "industry leaders," so I can't help but wonder what kind of promises and closed-door deals USDA has been making with whom?? :?
cowboyFFA_09
Well-known member
Im not saying that i think my product has lost consumer confidence. Even though its a system to help with disease outbreaks, it can still be used as a marketing tool. And ill probably use it both ways. If it can help me profitible than it will most likely be used on my herd. This is a pretty good thing the Government is giving us but i would like to see a bit more effort towards the farmer instead of the product.
(Hope i havent caused any hard feelings toward anybody or disrupted any friendships)
Millerlite :cboy:
(Hope i havent caused any hard feelings toward anybody or disrupted any friendships)
Millerlite :cboy:
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