Newbie Question

[Central Fl Cracker]

Ok once again go easy on me I am very new at this.
I have decided to start out with my 150 acres this way.
I am going to buy a hereford heifer( Pregnant ) with one calf on the side. What I am confused about is in order to build my heard can I keep the two calves and the one hereford and keep breeding them until I have a few herefords and then start selling the future calves later down the road. Also what do they mean by replacement heifers. And yes I know I will have to get a bull or lease one at some point. I guess the confusing point for me if I sell the 2 calves after I fatten them I would only have the original hereford left.

 

[MikeC]

Ok once again go easy on me I am very new at this.
I have decided to start out with my 150 acres this way.
I am going to buy a hereford heifer( Pregnant ) with one calf on the side. What I am confused about is in order to build my heard can I keep the two calves and the one hereford and keep breeding them until I have a few herefords and then start selling the future calves later down the road. Also what do they mean by replacement heifers. And yes I know I will have to get a bull or lease one at some point. I guess the confusing point for me if I sell the 2 calves after I fatten them I would only have the original hereford left.

A replacement heifer is a "replacement" for the cows that get old, sick, die, raise inferior calves,etc. to keep your herd numbers at your "target level". It will take a looooooooooong time to build a herd from one cow.

 

[bigbull338]

ok your buying a hereford pair . what is the calf sucking her teat now bull or heifer.since your starting out slowly i suggest when you have the mon for a hereford pair that you buy them.
scott

 

[Farminlund]

Since it is likely that only half of the calves that come from this cow & any subsequent heifers that you keep (& they won't give you a calf for another 2 yrs post birth) - you will be very very old by the time you start utilizing most of that 150 acres!

You could set a target time to achieve optimal stocking say ~8-10 yrs & work backward to an approximate number of cows to start with. If your land could support ~100 pairs, then if you had 50% heifers & kept all of them & they all bred properly (assumes no losses & that all the cows including the original were still producing - poor assumptions), but within 8 yrs you should be able to get to approximatly 100 cows.

 

[Farminlund]

I left off - "will be heifers" in my first sentence - sorry if that was confusing.

 

[Farminlund]

I used the same spread sheet & started with a single cow & heifer at her side & it got to ~100 pairs at about 50% longer or somewhere around 12 yrs - so maybe you won't be all that old after all. It's just that those first 6-7 yrs will be slow going (& thus under utilizing the land), then the numbers start catching up pretty fast.

 

[mgman]

Replacement heifers are ones that are retained to add to your herd (and ultimately produce calves) versus ones that you plan to sell for slaughter/meat.
Assuming the cow you are planning to buy has a heifer calf on her now, and assuming that she has a heifer calf next year, you would potentially have 3 females that you could use to expand your herd.
As others have stated, it will take you a very long time to build up a herd that way unless you plan on purchasing additional females for breeding...keep in mind that 50% heifer calves is about what you can expect in any given year.

 

[SF]

The calf that is on her side. When it is old enough to wean, sell it. Then when the cow calves, get her bred back as quickly as possible (within 2 or 3 months) 6 months later, sell that one too. With the cash from these two calves go buy another bred heifer or cow. You will grow your herd faster this way. It takes 3 years from the birth of a heifer to get another calf on the ground. JMO

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

I guess that was a stupid question on just buying one pregnant heifer with a calve on the side. Your right I would be an old man and have very little cattle. :roll:

So what I gather so far, my heifer calves should be sold and then I should probably take the money from the calve sales and probably buy another pregnant heifer with a calve on its side. I guess if I keep doing this I could increase my herd faster.
When is it practical to get your own bull instead of leasing or AI.? What is the market here in Florida for a pregnant heifer and a calf on it's side?
Another stupid question is why are there sellers that sell you pregnant heifers with a calf on the side? Why don't they keep their heifers and calves, fatten them and then sell at the market?
I know I am showing my ignorance about cattle but let me build you a 20 million dollar job ( I am a Contractor ) and I would look like a genious.

 

[bigbull338]

i would AI till you got 10hd. then buy a bull when you got to 10hd . b/c a bull cost $300 a yr to maintain.thus every 3yrs you could buy a cow from what the bull cost you. scott

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

Thanks everyone so far and keep em coming. So far it looks like I need to stay in the construction Biz :roll: but I am starting the cattle biz to slow down and let my twin 13 year old boys see another way of life instead of the construction biz. which can be tough also.

 

[jt]

i would AI till you got 10hd. then buy a bull when you got to 10hd . b/c a bull cost $300 a yr to maintain.thus every 3yrs you could buy a cow from what the bull cost you. scott

maybe i am looking at it wrong, but i figure a newbie isnt ready to even think about AI ing... at least in my area you couldnt, because it is difficult to find someone to AI for you, and as a newbie, you not going to be able to do it yourself.

schooling to learn AI is about $600, but even if you did know how to AI, the tank would cost a few hundred $ and around here it cost $180 a year to maintain one, plus the semen cost. either way, you are going to spend a good bit per head to get em bred.

seems to me a newbie would need to focus on other things first instead of AI.. but that is jmo. who knows, after a year or 2 you might not even like this business..

the learning curve can be shortened by continuing to ask questions on these boards and finding someone in your area if you can to help you learn the ropes. probably not until then will you really know which direction you want to go in this business, because there are lots of different options.

starting out i would tell you to buy older short mouth cows that have proved themselves. get someone experienced to help you buy them... then learn what you can, and as you go you will adapt your operation to what you want it to be.

good luck

jt

 

[heather3_27]

I think AI is a great way to start out without having to deal with a bull. I work for Cattle Visions and our schools are only $300. We also do custum AI, and A LOT of people out there do custom AI. If you want to give me an area, there is a chance we'd even have a dealer nearby that could get the semen and AI for you. Besides that, the pluses of AI go way beyond the cost. You can afford to AI with a bull that you could never touch if you had to buy him.

A new tank is around $500, but you can pick up a good used tank, if you are careful WHO you get it from for less. And if you have someone custom AI for you, you can buy just enough semen to get your cows bred with and not necessarily need to keep a tank up for a small herd.

Secondly at least you are trying to start in the right way. Instead of buying a common bull for too much $$$, you could use AI and use some of the best economically. I think it's good. Holler at me if Cattle Visions can help you in any way. And good luck!

 

[SF]

JT brought up a good point. If you are new at this, you may want to buy bred cows rather than heifers. Bred cows will not have the calving problems of heifers. I wouldn't go with smooth mouth cows, but cows that are 5 or 6 years old would be great. They have already had 2 calves, so they've proven themselves.

I would forget about AI'ing unless you have someone around close that can help you with it. Where I'm at, there isn't anyone close by that can help. For the cost of AIing I can own a bull quite a bit cheaper. JMO

 

[Bama]

Another option for a quick turnaround is if you have plenty of grass is to buy calves at around 400 pounds. You can graze them a little while and then resale them at 650. Then take the profits from these and buy more or buy 3 in ones. Just make sure you have someone that has been around calves that can assist you at the buying of these calves. Its easy to get burned if you don't know what your looking for.

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

Bama
What would a 400 lb calf cost and what would a 650lb sell for?

 

[MikeC]

Feeder Steers Medium and Large 1

Head Weight Range Avg Wt Price Range Avg Price
10 400 - 435 414 $132.00-$144.00 136.94
8 455 - 485 469 $125.00-$127.00 126.12
16 510 - 540 523 $117.00-$124.00 121.21
6 560 - 595 576 $109.00-$119.00 114.99
11 600 - 615 608 $110.00-$117.00 114.28
6 660 - 690 678 $108.00-$110.00 109.00

Feeder Steers Medium and Large 2

Head Weight Range Avg Wt Price Range Avg Price
16 310 - 345 324 $145.00-$155.00 149.26
20 350 - 390 363 $137.00-$151.00 142.58
30 400 - 448 426 $126.00-$134.00 130.65
35 455 - 495 475 $120.00-$127.00 122.23
60 505 - 545 525 $114.00-$123.00 117.76
52 550 - 595 581 $110.00-$118.00 115.71
34 602 - 640 617 $105.00-$115.00 110.27
22 655 - 690 670 $104.00-$113.00 108.11
10 705 - 740 714 $96.00-$106.00 102.89
5 765 - 785 778 $94.00-$101.00 98.50

Feeder Steers Medium and Large 3

Head Weight Range Avg Wt Price Range Avg Price
14 355 - 395 376 $126.00-$137.00 133.88
17 405 - 445 424 $120.00-$130.00 124.81
14 455 - 495 474 $113.00-$123.00 117.69
13 510 - 540 523 $109.00-$117.00 111.40
7 555 - 590 573 $107.00-$113.00 108.60
3 600 - 615 608 $97.00-$106.00 102.64
4 660 - 695 680 $99.00-$101.00 100.26

Alabama Prices last week

 

[Bama]

Expect to pay about $530 for a 400 pounder and sell it at 650 for about $675. Worm em and vac em and put the grass to em. You shouldn't have a problem doing this in about 90 days. Again a word of caution. Take someone that knows cattle with you. You gotta get the right ones to do this with. I make the most on my calves at purchase. Get the ones you can put weight on. Now don't go counting all your $145 as profit, you still have the health, facilities, pasture care, and other expenses to figure in. This is just a quick way of turning grass to cash.

 

[Susie David]

Cracker...sounds like you are off to a nice start. Is the cow bred back? I would add a few steers and another pair or two...raise them this year and sell or slaughter when they are finished. The experience is invaluable and you won't have alot of $$ invested. Buy quality stock! Remember that averages are 50% heifer calves...keep the heifers, steer the bulls unless you breed for a specific herd sire. I would stick with the Herefords you can't go wrong with them...don't bring as much as a baldie or any black at the sale barn but you can easily breed Baldies. Good luck....Dave says to buy Herefords that have color around the eyes, less chance of cancer eye.

 

[icandoit]

The best advice I got when I started out was to find myself a good mentor, 2 or 3 would be better. Ask them questions and go to the barns with them or go by yourself and ask questions there. Those people normally would be happy to answer your questions. Ask questions on this board, very knowledgeble people here. READ,READ, and then READ some more.

Dick