New tractor and Grapple question!

[WLKRTXRNGR]

Thanks for all the great info and help in my search for a new/slightly used tractor. We've narrowed the field to fwd, not less than 50hp, JD, NH or Kubota. My question is - if I buy a used tractor with FEL, do I need to make sure of any features so I can easily add a grapple? With my 75 acres being 2/3s timber, I think a grapple will be very helpful.... Thoughts?

 

[highgrit]

Well you've just eliminated Kubota as a choice. IMO The tie rods are in front of the axle on a Kubota tractor. And a grapple is really heavy, and a Kubota tractor is the lightest tractor out of your choices. Our grapple is the best attachment that I've bought, and it's also the most destructive piece too. A grapple is ruff on your tractor, and will cause you to tear your tractor up.

 

[Chainsaw Driver]

Great question, here are few of my experiences over the last three years.

Know your load: My grapple weighs 1200 pounds and my tractor (Deere 5095M) as a lifting capacity of 6600 pounds with appropriate counter weight. The practical lifting capability is roughly 5400 pounds after deducting the grapple weight. This number will vary considerably depending on the size and shape of the load. Before you buy, determine what you want to carry. If its heavy logs tractors in the 100 HP range may be best, if its small brush and shorter log sections 50-60 may be best. My dad has a 50 Mahindra and can carry approximately 3000 pounds with his grapple and he's very happy with it.

Set up the loader correctly: To run the grapple your loader will need a third function hydraulic system. Most manufacturers have a third set available as an option. You will want the third function on the loader the control stick. Using the rear remotes or a lever mounted somewhere else is counter productive. My loader has the third function under my thumb and I can operate the loader arms and grapple at the same time.

Purchase the right grapple design for your needs: I run a frontier root grapple and it has two grappling arms controlled by two separate rams. The rams are operated simultaneously but float and adjust to differences in the load. Other designs are available that only have one arm, the work well for small brush application but do not perform well on imbalanced loads or larger tree sections. There is also a grapple bucket design available and that is used mostly for trash, rocks and small log applications. Just select the design that is appropriate for your needs.

Protect your tractor: My frontier is an open designed grapple and the first day I used it I caved in my grill. I then welded protection plates into the grapple frame to prevent sticks from coming through and into the tractor. This modification works great and I can push a substantial load without fear of stabbing the tractor. Also of note, a bottom skid plate for your tractor should be considered. I've been running without one and stabbed a hole in my fuel tank last week. :bang:

Protect yourself: One last ting to consider and comment on is personnel protection. I run open station and the loader will lift more than the tractor can support. Tipping is a major concern and load balance should always be considered. Always use a counterweight on the back (box blade or mower etc.), and do your best to center the load. Carrying a tree will almost always result in an imbalanced load and one should use extreme caution to not turn the tractor over side ways. Also don't forget to keep your ROPS up and locked just in case you do tip it over.

Good luck with your purchase, our grapple is one of the best tools I've ever owned and I'll never be without one again.

 

[highgrit]

I'm a JD man but I'd use the spec sheet when comparing capacities. One other thing to remember with a loader tractor, is wear your seat belt, and push to float if the tractor starts to tip.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Highgrit I have been running a Kubota for almost 8 years and have never bent a tie rod. How the heck have I kept from it? I run in conditions that I would compare to any one.

 

[SmokinM]

Like was already said you want third function on the loader and for me personally it needs to be electric third function not a lockout that way you can use all the functions at once. IMO Kubota and Deere are the only ones with enough hydraulic flow to run one efficiently. Bad news is third function is usually a pricey feature but if you want to run a grapple that's the only way to go. If you go with skid steer quick attach you have a lot more options on grapple style and availability.

They can be hard on a tractor but so can any attatchment. It's all in how you run it. You can break anything if you try hard enough.

 

[WLKRTXRNGR]

Thanks for all the great info - very helpful and appreciated. I usually "baby" my equipment as I'm constantly remembering how much I paid for it (whether its trucks, boats, atvs, etc) - suppose it will be the same with this... I like the functionality of the grapple but will definitely not push it to the limit!

Many thanks!

Mike


10 Yrs Air Force
8 yrs in the Operating Room
1 month Farmer!

 

[highgrit]

Highgrit I have been running a Kubota for almost 8 years and have never bent a tie rod. How the heck have I kept from it? I run in conditions that I would compare to any one.

I respectively disagree, we had a 8200 Kubota fwd with a loader. It could not hold up to our abuse, my son hit a stump and cracked the fuel tank. I put a hole in the oil pan pushing up a burn pile. Them little tie rod guards don't hold up backing up. I should post some pictures of our tractors, but I'm a little embarrassed really. We are deer hunters first and work in the woods all the time.

 

[jltrent]

Sounds like some of you need a bulldozer.

 

[tom4018]

Highgrit I have been running a Kubota for almost 8 years and have never bent a tie rod. How the heck have I kept from it? I run in conditions that I would compare to any one.

I respectively disagree, we had a 8200 Kubota fwd with a loader. It could not hold up to our abuse, my son hit a stump and cracked the fuel tank. I put a hole in the oil pan pushing up a burn pile. Them little tie rod guards don't hold up backing up. I should post some pictures of our tractors, but I'm a little embarrassed really. We are deer hunters first and work in the woods all the time.

Would any fuel tank hold up to hitting a stump? Or a oil pan hold up to a limb hitting it? I think any brand would have a hard time handling that in a comparable built tractor. I will say some that have the fuel tank mounted high behind the seat might fair better with the stump.

 

[John SD]

I have a Kubota LA2254 loader on my Kubota M126GX tractor which is a considerably larger rig than you are considering. I also have a MDS aftermarket bucket and grapple which is much heavier built than the OEM bucket and grapple. Every Kubota like mine that I've seen not only from my Kubota dealer but from other Kubota dealers around the state has the same setup.

I've seen about a dozen Kubotas like mine (M126GX or M135GX) around the county from at least 2 diffferent dealers and they all have the same aftermarket bucket/4 tine grapple setup on them. I would venture to say there are more new Kubotas within 40 miles around here than all other colors put together :idea: The aftermarket bucket and grapple is actually proudly made in Parkston SD USA 8) 8) 8) MDS also makes buckets/grapples and attachments for other tractor loaders and skid steers. This is the MDS website http://www.mdsmfg.com Here are some pics of various buckets/grapples http://attachmentspecialists.com/bucketsgrapples/

I have no issues with my Kubota tractor/loader, the bucket/grapple, or tie rods. But I realize my 105hp tractor is a whole different animal that the smaller older Kubota tractors. Kubota is a lighter built tractor than American brands, but IMO Kubota puts steel and iron where it really counts :idea: I would not hesitate to buy another Kubota based on my ownership experience.

I can pick up one 5x6 bale easily. I tried 2 bales while unloading a truck but no go, the hydraulics would not allow it. I like that part, because it keeps me from doing something stupid I limit my own bales to 5x5 size on purpose. The bales weigh 1300 lbs. I can pick 2 of them up at one time and lift them about as high as the hood of the tractor. The 5x6 bales I was unloading off the truck weighed 1750 lbs. Worked good as long a I unloaded one bale at a time.

I love the stout build and secure grip of the MDS grapple. I run the grapple via electric pushbuttons on the knob of the factory Kubota joystick. I have picked up 2 bales occassionally to set them on top of other bales, but I don't carry them far and don't make a regular practice of it. Most of the time I just go with one bale on the loader, and 2 bales on the 3pt. 2 bales on the loader does makes the back end kind of light without bales on the 3 pt for counterbalance. Rear tires have fluid, but no weights.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I think the Key word in your reply Highgrit is Abuse. None of them take abuse very kindly. I use mine for what ever I do. One thing you have done is buy a piss ant to do a oxens job.

 

[highgrit]

I think the Key word in your reply Highgrit is Abuse. None of them take abuse very kindly. I use mine for what ever I do. One thing you have done is buy a be nice ant to do a oxens job.

You make do with what you have. I forgot one other piece of equipment that is brutal on a tractor also. A Brown tree cutter, but between the tree cutter and grapple I cleared most of my land. My thinking is if the tractor can run it over I can mow it. And yes Red bull we abuse our equipment.

 

[greybeard]

Research "Power Beyond".
We connected lots of 3rd party implements to Kubotas using power beyond port and sleeve, including grapples. Your Kubota dealer can help you find where to plumb in the hyd power supply and return.
The bent front tie rod thing on Kubotas has pretty much been fixed over the last 4-5 years, just as it has been on most name brand tractors-JD and Ford/New Holland as well as Mahindra and Kioti all went thru a spate of weak tie rods at different times.
That doesn't mean you can't or won't still bend one--put enough strain and physical stress on any of them and they will bend.
When you consider the stress we put on those steering parts, especially in the woods, it's a wonder any of them hold up.

 

[Jbonnot03]

Just got an Anderson Ag grapple for our Kubota M9000. To be quite blunt it is AWESOME. I have been clearing an old fence line of some Hackberry trees to rebuild the fence and it was great to be able to pick up the trees and carry them to the pile without leaving the seat. We ran a set of hoses off of one of the rear remotes and mounted them to use. The location of the rear hydraulic controls and the joystick are very close and that is not an issue on our tractor. We did have to add water to the tires as the grapple is about half the weight of a bale of hay. As was noted above, the Kubota is very light in the rear end compared to a JD. We have used both. The JD could pick up whatever the hydraulics would allow with the FEL and not feel like it was going to stand on its nose. The Kubota without the water feels light just with one bale of hay on the front.

Back to the OP's question, I would look at closer to 100hp tractor and a third remote is a plus. I wouldn't say that would be a deal breaker(depending on the location of the rear controls), but a nice addition. As far as brand, all those listed would be great. If you have the opportunity, try out the FEL on a bale of hay on each one. It will give you an idea of the balance of the tractor.

 

[Nesikep]

I think a Case/IH tractor should be in your sights too, assuming you have a dealer around... I'm looking at a IH 584 4wd (I have a 684 2wd) with bucket, I've heard they have far superior lifting capacity compared to other tractors in the power range (65 hp), fuel tank is behind the seat, cast iron oil pans, and the tie rods behind the front axle.
A rancher here once told us when looking at tractors, get the heaviest one, and the IH (JD too) are among the heaviest built. I have heard some horror stories of newer JD's that are built in india.. things like tranny housings snapping in half.. make sure you get a "real" tractor, not a homeowner/hobby model... like everything else, the big brands have decided there's a lot of money to be made selling disposable equipment!

 

[wbvs58]

What do you mean by a grapple? Most tractors here with a FEL have what we call a 4in1 bucket. The bottom and sides of the bucket are hinged at the top and the sides have a few serrations cut into them so that when opened up they can be closed around a tree or whatever. Also with bucket open the blade on the bottom can be used for grading and the opened front of bucket can be used to pull dirt in reverse and then when closed the bucket is used in conventional way for use as a loader.
Is this what you mean by a grapple?
Ken

 

[John SD]

What do you mean by a grapple? Most tractors here with a FEL have what we call a 4in1 bucket. The bottom and sides of the bucket are hinged at the top and the sides have a few serrations cut into them so that when opened up they can be closed around a tree or whatever. Also with bucket open the blade on the bottom can be used for grading and the opened front of bucket can be used to pull dirt in reverse and then when closed the bucket is used in conventional way for use as a loader.
Is this what you mean by a grapple?
Ken

Grapples "here" were traditonally used to feed loose hay. With the introduction of the hydraulic loader for tractors back in the 40's, grapples replaced pitchforks.

Very few people put up loose hay anymore. Might still be some holdouts in the Sandhills of Nebraska But the vast majority of hay"here" now is harvested in the form of 5x6 round bales, and a grapple is not absolutely necessary. Or a bucket for that matter. Some folks just use a spear on the front of the loader. I'm an old fashioned guy and still prefer to have a traditional bucket and grapple.

Check out the pictures of aftermarket loader bucket/grapple combinations, grapples to install on your bucket, and bale spears in the link I posted to http://www.mdsmfg.com :tiphat:

Edit: This new bucket/grapple combo for a skid steer looks exactly the same as what I have on my Kubota LA2254 loader:

http://www.premiereqhuron.com/show.aspx?vid=2938641

 

[wbvs58]

Oh yeh, thanks. Lots of possible combos.
I'll have to get a photo of my 4in1 bucket to show what I have. Yes I use a pair of spears for moving large round bales or if I am feeling lazy and just shifting one bale will open the bucket and wrap a chain around the bale then tilt back and lift it.
Ken

 

[wbvs58]

Yeh here is my 4in1 bucket on my old Kubota. It will grab and lift trees up to the limit of the loader. Yes I have used and abused a lot. It is great for piling up stacks for burning. You get very good at judging the balance point to pick them up. You can see the 3 cutting edges on the bucket. I use a homemade concrete counter weight that you might see in the background of a photo. I broke and bent the pin hooking up once the top arm jammed against it and the leverage broke the concrete and bent it but I have used it lots since then.


Ken