New here and have a LONG question!!!

[ourhouse51]

Hi everyone,
I have been lurking here quite a bit lately and decided tonite to go ahead and take the plunge and register. Alot of the problems I was searching for have been answered already!

But here's the deal...we recently acquired a 7 year old Palomino mare who had a 7 month stud colt still on her. The mare had not been ridden much for a long time and the colt had never been messed with at all. It's been a long time since I have been around horses but I did remember a few things! We separated the horses and it took almost a month before they both quit trying to get to each other. We have now started halter training on the colt and he behaves fairly decently most of the time. BTW, his name is Finely...cause my daughter FINALLY got a horse!

But the mare......I call the the Alpha "B" most of the time!
She is an absolute angel to groom, she loves the attention. But she does not like men and she does not like to be approached from the right side.
She is not hard to catch, saddle or bridle. Easy to mount.
And......if you like sitting on a horse, she's great! She does NOT like to ride evidently. She will turn circles, back up, kick out with one hind leg..Sometimes it takes 30 minutes for her to "decide" she wants to go forward. No amount of coaxing, nudging or anything can convince her to go forward at more than a slow walk. But, turn her back toward the barn....and hold on because she can then show you trot and gallop. One think I do remember is my daddy telling me never to have a horse that insisted on running back to the barn....

And to top it off, so far the only person who has been able to ride her at all is my daughter. (and my nephew who is a farrier and cowboys on the side...with some whip and spurs.....)

So, am I going to have to start her from scratch to retrain her to accept another rider and to accept my husband working with her??? Or is there any hope for this girl? I really think her previous owner was not a nice man to her.



Sorry this sounded more like a dissertation than a question!

 

[Mike Franklin]

I can tell ya what worked for me on a horse who wouldn't except a rider. We got together a half dozen real good horsemen and rode the pony in like a tag team deal. He didn't go without someone on him until he was wore out and his tongue hangin' out. No abuse just ridden all day. It didn't 'break' him but it made him understand what his job was.
As for being barn sour, as soon as you get him to where he can be ridden there's a couple of things you ought to try. First ride her awhile then go back home. Tie her somewhere, wait a bit then go ride her again. When ya come home on her make her ride past your place for a short distance then come back home and do it again. Also when you first get her home make her stand tied for awhile before you remove the tack and feed and water her. She has learned that going home is the end of her work day and she has to unlearn that. I have ridden a pony passed my entrance 5 or 6 times before we'd go home. He learned hat going toward home didn't mean we were going home. Also don't take her home, ride her to a friends place, leave her awhile, maybe over night if need be then go back and ride her home. She shouldn't think that her day has to end at home either. The nice thing about fixin' a barn sour horse is that it envolves a lot of riding.
The first thing you have to do is teach that mare that she has a job and a Boss. You set the job and you have to be the Boss.
As for the part about aproaching her from the right, I've never had that problem and might have to handle her to know where to go. I'm believing that she might have had someone come up on her right and do something to her(?)

 

[chippie]

First off, a couple of questions.

• Did you ride her or see her ridden before you bought her?
  
  Do you know how she was trained? Cues, type of bit, etc???

Not knowing the answers yet, if she were mine, I would first make sure that the saddle that I am using fits. Western saddles are not a one size fits all. You want her to be comfortable and you don't want to add the pain and discomfort from a poorly fitting saddle into the mix. The attitude that you describe could be caused by a poorly fitting saddle, attitude or a combination of both. You need to rule out that the saddle is too tight through the twist, doesn't bridge and is clear through the rock. If you don't know how to check let me know and I'll send you a link about how to check.

I would start off by riding her in an enclosed area such as a round pen or arena. Riding her in the open sets yourself up for failure. In an enclosed area, you will have more control of the situation.
You need to start off slowly and get it in her head that all you want is forward motion. Work her only at a walk, take it easy and get to know how she responds to cues and reins. Reverse, do figure 8's and just take it easy. Once she is doing that well, move on to a jog. Do the same as the walk, mix it up between a walk and a jog. Then move onto a lope.

Time isn't important and this may take several months. It will be a bonding and hopfully positive training experience for you and your daughter.

If she is having problems gapping her mouth or responding to the bit, you make need to get her teeth checked. If she hasn't been floated within 8 months to a year, she needs it done. Sharp tooth edges + a bridle's cheekpieces + the bit can cause pain.

I also recommend that you find a trainer or mentor to help you. Having a person who is experienced and can read the horse will do you more good than any bulletin board.

You could be making mistakes that you are not aware of, but a mentor would see them and help you to correct them.

Also, have your daughter wear a helmet every times she rides. If you ride the mare, you wear one too. Your family needs you.

Riders will probably scoff at wearing a helmet. I do because I have children and I need to think of their future.

http://www.bayequest.info/horsetalk/helmets.htm

 

[skidboots]

I like Mike's advice. A lot of wet saddle blankets, and time in the saddle, plus common sense, fix most all behavorial problems in horses. Good Luck.

 

[clampitt]

The only thing I can say is you obviously havent layed in a hospital bed with pins in your leg caused by a barn sour ill mannered horse.You can ride two good colts and have something in the same amount of time you spend here and still you have a problem.If you are not in the horse riding business or like Mike have access to several pretty good hands to help you out you can be in a world of hurt.She was spoiled by some body who didn't have the knowledge or the guts to fix the problem so she is a broodmare .And thats Ok.if she is gentle on the ground and is easy to be around and you like to raise colts out of her.And then when you are older from riding these kind and the arthiritis sets in believe me it aint worth it.You will feel every one of them buckin horses.If you really want to get her riding start back at the beginning and drive her in a round pen on lines untill you can make her lope stop turn and back up.I have driven a lot of older kind of unbroke ones and a few ex race horses.Driving one does a lot.I have driven some of the really hard tuf ones of of another horse.You can really put some hello come to papa on one,but need a pretty good horse and have done it.TRy driving her see how it goes.Drive her till she drives.I have spent 30 days on some.But no matter what be carefull and have somebody with you when you do just in case.I have layed there for a good while by myself as well.Food for thought.

 

[Mike Franklin]

Luckily there's still a bunch of good Cowboy's in South Texas who'll do most things on a dare and the others for a beer.
BTW, it takes me about an hour to get straight in the morning. I don't ride anything but the gentle giants anymore.

 

[chippie]

I will add since no one here can actually see what she does or how she acts, all advice is moot.

Ground driving is an excellent suggestion, but riding her into the ground won't solve your problem.

Like I said before, find a trainer or mentor to help you. Have them evaluate the horse and see what is going on. Get an honest opinion if she is salvageable, but use common sense and most importantly stay safe.

No horse is worth getting hurt by. It doesn't cost anymore to feed a horse that you can enjoy than one that you can't.

Personally, I would never allow my minor children to ride a horse that exhibits such bad behavior. The mare may get mad at her too and blow up big time. I wouldn't take the risk.

Our adult children, I don't tell what to do.

 

[msscamp]

She does NOT like to ride evidently. She will turn circles, back up, kick out with one hind leg..Sometimes it takes 30 minutes for her to "decide" she wants to go forward. No amount of coaxing, nudging or anything can convince her to go forward at more than a slow walk. But, turn her back toward the barn....and hold on because she can then show you trot and gallop. One think I do remember is my daddy telling me never to have a horse that insisted on running back to the barn....

And to top it off, so far the only person who has been able to ride her at all is my daughter. (and my nephew who is a farrier and cowboys on the side...with some whip and spurs.....)

So, am I going to have to start her from scratch to retrain her to accept another rider and to accept my husband working with her??? Or is there any hope for this girl? I really think her previous owner was not a nice man to her.

Yes, there is hope for the girl, and yes, you will have to retrain her, but - and I don't mean this to sound harsh - in order to do that you will have to have enough horse savvy to understand what she is trying to tell you with her behaviour. I would start by making sure she does not have problems with her back - such as fistules, saddle sores that have not healed properly, her back being out of whack, or injuries to her withers or neck - then I would make sure the saddle fits properly. Once I knew those things were taken care of, I would give her a chance to realize that not all saddles hurt, and not all people are jerks. Start with ground training and earn her trust. Then saddle her up and work her in a round pen or on a lunge line until she is comfortable and accepts your leadership. As far as the barn sour is concerned, ride her towards the barn at a walk (I realize this is going to present a challenge, but keep working at it and never put her up on her terms), then turn her around and trot away. Vary the distance at which you turn her away, and keep doing it until she accepts it and quits fighting. Yes, it will probably be an all day thing - and could even take several days, but it will be worth it. As others have already said, wet blankets make for a well behaved horse so long as all possible underlying issues that could be contributing to the behavior of the horse have been eliminated. Otherwise, you're fighting a losing battle. I would also lose the whips and spurs, but then, I'm not a big believer in either.

 

[skidboots]

After re-reading your intial post, I have changed my mind. I missed that part about "kicks out with her hind leg".
I side with Clampitt now.
She is a broodmare, and too dangerous to let kids around at feeding, or colt training time. You will have plenty of challenges and family fun with the colt.
The mare is spoiled, and will do nearly anything to avoid riding. Spend you time where it pays off, on the colt.

 

[Mike Franklin]

LOL, all advice is moot......but here's mine. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[chippie]

kicks out with her hind leg".

That is also a sign that the horse may need chiropractic help. The mare may be out in her back or hip.

This isn't uncommon in mares that have foaled.

There is a girl in our 4-H club. She has a very gentle mare. The mare had a foal last year and the girl didn't really start riding her again until about 3 months ago. The girl was having a hard time to get the mare to take her right lead. She would kick out in protest.

She was out of whack. A chiropractor found the problem and the mare will take both leads without a fuss.

I am not saying that this is this mare's problem because I have never seen the horse. But it is something to take into consideration.

This advice isn't related to the mare, but to the colt. Since he is to be your daughter's. If both testes are down, geld him as soon as the weather is nice.

 

[Mike Franklin]

We always gelded when it was very cold and dry. Cuts down on infection and flys.

 

[chippie]

LOL, all advice is moot......but here's mine. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mike, Do you know what moot means? I used it as an adjective.

Main Entry: moot
Function: adjective
-- a. open to question : DEBATABLE b : subjected to discussion : DISPUTED

Yea it is all moot, but some of us realize that a person never stops learning (including ourselves) and are not stuck in the past. ;-)

What was said, may help another.

 

[ourhouse51]

Seriously, thanks for all the advice. I realized that I would get varied opinions and that is great. Now, I can try some different things to see what works.

I do have a couple of guys who have come over and helped with her. They are both long time horse guys so I value their opinions. Both seem to think that she was just left on her own for too long and needs to be retrained.

Yes, we did see her ridden before buying. As far as the bit, I can't remember which he used but we have found one she absolutley will not take....and one she seems to do okay with.

So, we will see what goes from here.

 

[Mike Franklin]

Now that this is settled I guess we can all go down to the stock tank and watch Chippie walk on water.

 

[chippie]

Glad that you have someone to help you.

Mike--

 

[dewey]

just my two cents on this.

i wouldnt put a kid or unexperienced rider on any horse that i didnt know much about. it doesnt matter how they act while being grommed etc. i like to see the person i am getting the horse from step on on it and show me what it can do. if that is not possible i will try the horse myself and ride it for a week or more before putting someone else on it.

just from reading what you posted here, it sounds to me like the mare is spoiled. she has picked up some bad habits from unexperienced riders. she may be one that only and experienced rider can handle.

there is several reasons that could cause one that is not spoiled not to wanna step off. could be the rider is holding the reins to tight. sometimes other problems head shaking,not stopping right or turnin right etc comes from rideing one with a bit they are not used to be rode with. the kicking of the hind leg and backing up here sounds like to me she is just agrevated and doesnt want to step off. going back to the spoiled part.

i would recommend as others said let someone that knows about horse ride her for awhile. goodluck with her.

 

[chippie]

Mike,
I feel bad for sticking my tongue out at you.

I apologize.

There has been good advice given by different posters, and it has given the original poster food for thought, and maybe a different view of her horse.

My suggestions were only suggestions, and not a my way is the only way.

The best thing that the original poster can do is what she said she is going to do, get someone to help her one on one.

Owning a well trained horse is a pleasure. I can't take credit for training all of our horses. Some were started by professionals who I respect and learned a great deal from. My older horses are solid, and although they may be a bit out of shape when they haven't been ridden for a long time, I don't have to worry about one acting stupid or throwing a fit. I've owned these horses for over 10 years. The younger horses, well I don't know if I can say the same for them because they get worked regularly.

Saw your remark at Horse Gazette.

Oh well, sorry that I stepped on your toes.

 

[Horse Guy]

I agree with everyone about never thinking a dull unresponsive horse is gentle. There not gentle, just spoiled. Most will fall a part if you ever ask them to do a job. That is unless they are a total lifeless dude horse with nothing left in them.
I disagree about the wet saddle blankets. I have done it both ways. Your never going to get a really good ride out of a horse unless you get them good on the ground.
You have to get the horse hooked up to you. Then you need to establish leadership, respect, feel and trust.
A professional trainer could get you started in this in a few hours by showing you. To write it out would take hundreds of pages and im not sure you could follow it without seeing it.
Honestly I think you would be better off with an easier, better trained horse to get you started.
But no matter what you choose to do, you need to get yourself in some kind of a training program.
PS Im thinking when you get the colt gelded you might as well have his teeth done at the same time.