New Heifers

[Wewild]

That guy must be a magician becuase that would be on heck of a trick!

So what's your opinion on the sire of my heifers? Simme with low BW or Angus with high BW?

None of the above!

dun

I'd say that's right. Don't take a chance with your new found pride and joy.

 

[dun]

After some thought, I'm curious as to how low of a birthweight the Simmenthal has. If is calves generally run in the 75-80 lb range, I wouldn't like those 80 lb calves from smallish heifers but 75 pounds should be alright.
Might want to have the pelvic opening measured, that's the easiest way to get a feel for how big of a calf they can have.

dun

 

[Angus Cattle Shower]

Holy $---! Only 650 lbs! Or is it kilo's? Anywho myine are 580-645 at 205 days. But you know, they are Angus......... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 8) 8) 8)

 

[TheBullLady]

I thought those weights were a little low myself, but when I think about my mature cow herd, we're talking 1500-1600 lb mommas, which is the size I prefer.

I would go with the low birth weight Simmental bull.. but I breed Simmentals, so my opinion is probably biased! ;-) I've never had good luck using and Angus bull on anything

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Holy $---! Only 650 lbs! Or is it kilo's? Anywho myine are 580-645 at 205 days. But you know, they are Angus......... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 8) 8) 8)

Have you ever noticed how heavy Campground's calves are when he weans at 6 months? Go look at some of his posts. As far as that goes, I've got some decent numbers myself. Go to Hereford America's website, and sign up for a free subscription. Then look at the weaning weights listed for the Herefords advertised there. There are a number in the high eight hundreds. ;-) :idea:

 

[Wewild]

Holy $---! Only 650 lbs! Or is it kilo's? Anywho myine are 580-645 at 205 days. But you know, they are Angus......... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 8) 8) 8)

Have you ever noticed how heavy Campground's calves are when he weans at 6 months? Go look at some of his posts. As far as that goes, I've got some decent numbers myself. Go to Hereford America's website, and sign up for a free subscription. Then look at the weaning weights listed for the Herefords advertised there. There are a number in the high eight hundreds. ;-) :idea:

I don't remember that he or she ask for the answers you gave. Forgive me for stating the obvious.

Just bought my first set of new heifers. They aren't spectacular, but easy calver's anyway which is very important to me..

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Nice looking heifers, good luck with them.

Katherine

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Holy $---! Only 650 lbs! Or is it kilo's? Anywho myine are 580-645 at 205 days. But you know, they are Angus......... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 8) 8) 8)

Have you ever noticed how heavy Campground's calves are when he weans at 6 months? Go look at some of his posts. As far as that goes, I've got some decent numbers myself. Go to Hereford America's website, and sign up for a free subscription. Then look at the weaning weights listed for the Herefords advertised there. There are a number in the high eight hundreds. ;-) :idea:

I don't remember that he or she ask for the answers you gave. Forgive me for stating the obvious.

Just bought my first set of new heifers. They aren't spectacular, but easy calver's anyway which is very important to me..

Forgive me for not making myself clear. I was not downing El Putzo's heifers at all, just pointing out the Angus that to judge all Herefords by this one group is unrealistic. The heifers look good, and will probably be easy keepers. A performance bull should do wonders for the calf weights at weaning and yearling, whatever breed he may be. I'd suggest taking a look at a young bull named AH Heavy Duty, a Hereford who has a terrific spread from BW to YW, and good carcass data to boot!

 

[certherfbeef]

I have not read and studied this entire thread. Nor have I studied the heifers numbers. You are all forgetting to ask if he knows what the mature weight of the heifers dams are. I don't remember any of those heifers numbers...maybe I should go back to herfnet and look before I open my mouth...but maybe they are out of first calf heifers or extremely small cows. Maybe the milk just wasn't there?
Also, if it was me, I would not cross these heifers up. I see first hand every year what that good ol' hybrid vigor does to my herfs that are bred to simy bulls. I really like the result. But thet do come a tick bigger than plain old hereford calves. But if that is what you are going to do...just live with them till they calve!!
Good luck with them!! They are a goog looking, sound group of heifers. Enjoy them!!

 

[Angus Cattle Shower]

Holy $---! Only 650 lbs! Or is it kilo's? Anywho myine are 580-645 at 205 days. But you know, they are Angus......... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 8) 8) 8)

Have you ever noticed how heavy Campground's calves are when he weans at 6 months? Go look at some of his posts. As far as that goes, I've got some decent numbers myself. Go to Hereford America's website, and sign up for a free subscription. Then look at the weaning weights listed for the Herefords advertised there. There are a number in the high eight hundreds. ;-) :idea:

I don't remember that he or she ask for the answers you gave. Forgive me for stating the obvious.

Just bought my first set of new heifers. They aren't spectacular, but easy calver's anyway which is very important to me..

Forgive me for not making myself clear. I was not downing El Putzo's heifers at all, just pointing out the Angus that to judge all Herefords by this one group is unrealistic. The heifers look good, and will probably be easy keepers. A performance bull should do wonders for the calf weights at weaning and yearling, whatever breed he may be. I'd suggest taking a look at a young bull named AH Heavy Duty, a Hereford who has a terrific spread from BW to YW, and good carcass data to boot!

1. I am not saying Angus is better, but to us, Angus produced the best commercials. Herefords are second. I know not to say anything bad about them, because I was looking for some. My show steer this year is Simm./Angus.
2.I am a guy.
3.I am only talking about my 2 registered Angus heifers.
4.They werent on creep.

 

[El_Putzo]

Holy $---! Only 650 lbs! Or is it kilo's? Anywho myine are 580-645 at 205 days. But you know, they are Angus......... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: :cboy: ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 8) 8) 8)

I went back and reread my posts, and I'm not sure where you came up with the number 650. I did guesstimate them to be about 150 lbs each smaller than what they actually weighed. I guess we should have weighed them all separately instead. They did however average 805 lbs. I don't know exactly what they weighed at weaning.

We currently have 1/4 to 1/8 Simme in most of our cows with the other portion being angus, and we too wean lots of 550 to 650 lb calves. But I think maybe you are comparing apples to oranges here. As I understand it, Herefords are a smaller breed, and especially depending on what blood lines of Angus you are comparing to. There are large and small cattle in every breed, that's what makes the breed. If every cow of every breed weighed 1500 lbs there would not be much diversity, or much use in crossing breeds now would there.

Now, on to Dun's question. I justify my opinion of not AIing on the heifers for this reason. I don't know what kind of calves these cows will raise. I'd like to put them on my dad or brother's bull (free) and see what kind of calf they raise before I go throwing $50- ????? a piece at them trying to AI them. I do plan on AIing the ones that raise good calves later to build my own part of the herd. Maybe some would jump right in and do it the first time, but not me, I'm an original MO boy...Show Me what kind of calf you're going to raise before I go breeding you to a high powered bull. Just my $.02

Now, as for the Simme bull we are leaning towards. He is a 14 month old weighing around 1200lbs. He is homozygous black and polled. He had an actual BW of 78lbs. He had a 255 day weight of 805lbs. Here are his numbers: CE - 8.6 BW - .3 WW - 26.4 YW - 51.7 MCE - 5.2 MM - 7.8 MWW - 21. I have a pic but not on this computer. He is a state fair reserve champion.

I did some calculating last night using an "Across Breed EPD Conversion Chart" and theoretically, this new Simme bull should be an easier calver and throw lighter BW calves than the purebred Angus bulls we are currently using.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Calving ease is more important that Birth Weight EPD according to John Pollak at Cornell U (does all the EPD's for Simmental breed). He would like to drop the BW EPD.

Here's some stats to chew on:
"Calving data collected by Montana State Univ on over 2000 British heifers prove that Simm sires, when selected for calving ease, can be used successfully on heifers."

"Simmental sires now calve easier than Herefords and comparable to Angus (within 2%) when used on cows. Simmental females calve easier than any Continental or British breed." - based on USDA MARC

In ASA's Carcass Merit Program - "since 1998, 4000 british heifers AI mated (to bulls with +10 calving ease) - Avg BW 77.6 poiund "
In the beginning of the CMP, all crossbred calves were harvested for carcass data. Large farms like Sitz Angus were used. The farms decided they wanted to keep the heifers, so now the program allows them to keep the 1/2 blood heifers.

So, if the Simmental bull has a +10 Calving Ease EPD, by all means use him over a heavy BW Angus. Angus is PERCEIVED to be the calving ease breed, but it is a misnoma (sp?) There are bulls of all breeds that are easy & bulls of all breeds that are hard. It's your job to figure out which is which, and EPD's are a tool.
Also, be sure to evaluate what they look like. Don't pick a bull with a big head & most importantly big shoulders. You want him clean, flat fronted.

 

[dun]

This is one of those deals that I lose sight of tyhe costs that some folks incur for AI. I figure about a buck over the cost of semen. And there are some darn good $12 bulls floating around. $16 will get you some really good bulls, $20 you should be falling into the truly superor bulls. For $25 and up they should be the gretest calves in existence even if bred to a JerseyxDalmation. Semen prices have crept up in the past few years, but since I do the AIing myself the only costs are the hot water to thaw (pocket that some), the pipette, glove, a little mineral oil and a couple paper towels. I almost forgot, the water to hose down with if they've been on really good spring pasture.

dun

 

[El_Putzo]

I know almost nothing of AI. I'm just going by what a friend told me. He said they usually put 2 straws in each cow. Now at $20 per straw for the bulls I was looking at times 2, that's $40 per head plus shipping on the semen. Maybe that's all wrong. If it is, please fill me in as I would like to learn.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

CE - 8.6 BW - .3 WW - 26.4 YW - 51.7 MCE - 5.2 MM - 7.8 MWW - 21.

Those are really good numbers. You shouldn't have any problem.

 

[certherfbeef]

He said they usually put 2 straws in each cow.

Personally, unless you are flushing, 2 straws per cow is a waste of money and semen. In a perfect world, with perfect heat detection, and perfectly cycleing cows one unit is more than enough. I AI once then turn the bull out.

 

[El_Putzo]

I was wondering why I should have to use 2 per cow, but as I said, I know almost nothing about AI. Even at that, I still feel like I want to know whether or not these cows are going to raise good calves before I AI to try to get more heifers or even potentialy sell a registered bull or 2.

 

[dun]

I was wondering why I should have to use 2 per cow, but as I said, I know almost nothing about AI. Even at that, I still feel like I want to know whether or not these cows are going to raise good calves before I AI to try to get more heifers or even potentialy sell a registered bull or 2.

One straw per cow, if the timing isn;t right you can put twenty straws in and you still won't get a calf. We only use semen from studs that are CSS certified. All of the major studs that I'm aware of are. They have standards for motility, viability, disease, etc. that some of the others may not subscribe to.
Either the technician is trying to get in your shorts, or he/she/it isn't much of a tech. or is using inferior semen.
For every 4 I plan to breed to a particualr bull I buy 5 straws. I have a number of onesies left. Each year we use up some of the onesies just to clear out the tank.
We breed them ones, keep an eye on them starting about 16 days after we bred them, if they should come back in, not very common, we'll breed them again and turn them out with everybody else. If they don't settle I'll know eigther from their activity or when we preg check in the fall. Open hefiers grow wheels. Haven't had one that was bred grow wheels in many years.


dun

 

[El_Putzo]

Thanks for the advice. I'll try to post a pic of the bull I'm going to breed them to in a week or so when we are done looking around and actually buy one.