New Heifers, one is a little spirited

[Millerranch]

just bought 3 new Gert herford cross heifers. One is pretty skitish or flighty. I already have 4 longhorns and they are like big dogs. She will hang with them, but if I get to close she takes off. I have only had them for 2 days now. Will this pass as she gets used to us?


Thanks,

Tom

 

[dun]

just bought 3 new Gert herford cross heifers. One is pretty skitish or flighty. I already have 4 longhorns and they are like big dogs. She will hang with them, but if I get to close she takes off. I have only had them for 2 days now. Will this pass as she gets used to us?


Thanks,

Tom

It may, or it may not. She may even turn the others skittish

 

[bigag03]

Maybe or maybe not. That cross makes great cows, but from my experience, you are lucky that only one of them is flighty.

 

[Millerranch]

The rancher I bought them from said that I should pen them in a small pen for several days and she may get used to us.
Will this help?
She comes and eats at the trough when I call the rest in, she is just nervous and keeps one eye on us as she eats. If we get within 10 feet of her, she moves off about 30 feet and waits until we move away.

she looks like a a good heifer. what would you all do with her if you had her?

 

[dun]

Keeping her in a smallish pen with another tamer animal is about thw only way you will get to settle down if she's going to.
I would keep her in a smallish pen with another animal taht is tamer and spend a lot of time just hanging around with them. I've been known to sit in the pen and read outloud. Get's them curious and gets them used to your voice and makes them realize that you aren;t always there to do them some kind of evil..

 

[Victoria]

Tom, some of what I say may seem obvious but I don't know what level you are at.
Do as dun said, hang out with them. I sit with them, read aloud, chew gum (cows chew their cud when calm), snack on something. Do whatever, just be non-threatening. Don't just stand there and stare at her. Don't put your hands on your hips (makes you look larger - cows body language they puff up when they want to fight). A small area will help. I'd stick her with one other cow, your calmest. After she is used to you being in the pen feed her and her friend grain or some other cow treat and don't move away eventually she will probably come eat. If not just let her go without and try again the next day. Make sure she does have grass, hay or whatever and don't pester her with that. If after a few days (3 or 4) she doesn't come to eat the treat and you really want to calm her down and keep her, take away her water source. She drinks only when you give her water a couple times a day, just make sure you are giving her enough of course. She watches you fill the buckets - you want her to understand that you are giving her the water. First day you stand back a bit. If she wants 30 feet give her 25. The trick is to make her uncomfortable but not to the point she is not thinking. While she is drinking move up one step at a time. If she backs up you stop. Hold your ground but again in a non-threatening manner. Every day start a little closer. Just takes time and patience. A good book to read helps.

 

[Millerranch]

Thank you for the advice. I penned her up with my 4 longhorns for about a week. She is much better now. comes right to the feed bunk with the rest and does not run when I walk around her.
Thanks again.

Tom

 

[Victoria]

Glad she is working out for you Tom.

 

[Caustic Burno]

just bought 3 new Gert herford cross heifers. One is pretty skitish or flighty. I already have 4 longhorns and they are like big dogs. She will hang with them, but if I get to close she takes off. I have only had them for 2 days now. Will this pass as she gets used to us?


Thanks,

Tom

Used to deal with Gerts in my younger days most are wired a little tight. Ran a close second to the Tigers.

 

[djinwa]

just bought 3 new Gert herford cross heifers. One is pretty skitish or flighty. I already have 4 longhorns and they are like big dogs. She will hang with them, but if I get to close she takes off. I have only had them for 2 days now. Will this pass as she gets used to us?


Thanks,

Tom

She will obviously get better after getting used to a new situation. But unless she was victim of some kind of serious abuse, you can assume her temperament is genetically more undesirable. Yes, you can overcome it to some extent with some messing around. But she is more likely than the more gentle heifers to pass poor temperament onto her calves. Do you want to have to deal with them more also? It's like alot of problems like too big of teats - sure you can milk them out and bottle feed their calves for them, but do you want to?

I guess it probably also depends on what you want to do with the heifers. If they're roaming the range, some flightiness might be okay, and maybe help to avoid predators. But if you're going to handle them or be around them much, not so good. And flighty animals gain less.

I am in a similar situation having gotten a few heifers last week and one is more wild. Since the seller had bragged about how calm his cattle were, I called him and he said I could bring her back. He's a ways away, so I'm deciding whether to take back, sell to someone who won't handle them as much and doesn't care, or butcher her.

 

[BRYANT]

She will obviously get better after getting used to a new situation. But unless she was victim of some kind of serious abuse, you can assume her temperament is genetically more undesirable. Yes, you can overcome it to some extent with some messing around. But she is more likely than the more gentle heifers to pass poor temperament onto her calves. Do you want to have to deal with them more also? It's like alot of problems like too big of teats - sure you can milk them out and bottle feed their calves for them, but do you want to?

I have Brahman and Brahman cross and have for years I think some are high spirited and some are not. I personaly do not think it is a genetic thing. I had a full Brahman that we raised a bunch of calves from we kept her here at the house where we live most of the time she was so gentle she became a problem ,but everyone loved her, seams about half of her calves were just like her but the other half were wild and crazy it is just the way it is
unless they are bug-eyed ,I don't know how to explain it but I know what I look for, or just plain stupid then I will keep them you just learn how to handle different cows with different personalities

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

just bought 3 new Gert herford cross heifers. One is pretty skitish or flighty. I already have 4 longhorns and they are like big dogs. She will hang with them, but if I get to close she takes off. I have only had them for 2 days now. Will this pass as she gets used to us?


Thanks,

Tom

Used to deal with Gerts in my younger days most are wired a little tight. Ran a close second to the Tigers.

I have had the occasional tight Gert but certainly would not say "most". Maybe it was your source.

I always think it is funny how lots of people claim Herfs to be the most docile breed, yet some of their crosses are considered to be the most crazy.

Not sure if I completely agree with the whole genetic temperament or not either. I think it is a factor, but I think environment is a bigger factor.

 

[cypressfarms]

Not sure if I completely agree with the whole genetic temperament or not either. I think it is a factor, but I think environment is a bigger factor.

I have a brangus cross that calves as far away from people as she can and every time she sees me coming she brings her calf in the opposite direction. She has never (in 6 calves) raised a "calm" calf. When she's weaned her calf, she goes back with the herd and is fairly calm. IMO, there are tons of factors at work that make a calf/cow docile; I know one thing though, I won't keep "spirited" cattle.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Not sure if I completely agree with the whole genetic temperament or not either. I think it is a factor, but I think environment is a bigger factor.

I have a brangus cross that calves as far away from people as she can and every time she sees me coming she brings her calf in the opposite direction. She has never (in 6 calves) raised a "calm" calf. When she's weaned her calf, she goes back with the herd and is fairly calm. IMO, there are tons of factors at work that make a calf/cow docile; I know one thing though, I won't keep "spirited" cattle.

The breeds have improved temperment over the last forty years, none of the original English/Brimmer 3/8 5/8 crosses were calm cattle. But with as much improvement as there has been your still going to get the crazy from that cross from time to time.

 

[djinwa]

I have Brahman and Brahman cross and have for years I think some are high spirited and some are not. I personaly do not think it is a genetic thing. I had a full Brahman that we raised a bunch of calves from we kept her here at the house where we live most of the time she was so gentle she became a problem ,but everyone loved her, seams about half of her calves were just like her but the other half were wild and crazy it is just the way it is
unless they are bug-eyed ,I don't know how to explain it but I know what I look for, or just plain stupid then I will keep them you just learn how to handle different cows with different personalities

Temperament is not a simple genetic thing like horned/polled, but probably multiple genes at work in the right or wrong combination. Sure a gentle cow can have a crazy calf, because hidden genes pop up or combine in a certain way. It is all a probability thing - the more crazy genes in the herd, the more crazies will show up.

If it wasn't genetic, then there would be no point in culling the crazies. Most agree that you can improve the general temperament of the herd through culling. The reason the Limousin and Angus breeds have a docility EPD is they know you can make improvement. The nutcases should show up less frequently as you select against them.

Saw an interesting show on foxes raised in captivity in Russia many years ago. They started selecting for the more friendly ones and the coat color changed to look more like dogs. Apparently hormones related to wildness (more stress response) affect coat color.

http://www.nalf.org/why_choose_limousin ... hbull.html

Using docility EPDs to drive selection and to cull problem animals, Limousin breeders put strong selection pressure on disposition and made remarkable gains to improve docility. Rapid genetic progress was possible given the strong heritability of 0.40 estimated for the Limousin breed.

Limousin breeders have been using docility EPDs since 1998, when NALF published the first genetic evaluation for docility. By placing a strong emphasis on selection for calmer cattle in their breeding programs, they have improved the temperament of Limousin cattle dramatically.

The figure shows the genetic trend in docility as measured by the average docility EPD for Limousin cattle born from 1985 through 2007. The graph shows cattle born in 1990 had an average docility EPD of about +1, and those born in 2007 averaged +15. That is a 14-point increase in 17 years, which is quite remarkable considering tools for genetically improving temperament have been around since only 1998.

 

[BRYANT]

because hidden genes pop up or combine in a certain way. It is all a probability thing - the more crazy genes in the herd, the more crazies will show up.

The reason the Limousin and Angus breeds have a docility EPD

What to say this cow is not getting the wildness from the bull ?????? they may need to sell all the heifers if they have the same father
And Limousin they were some of the most stupid acting cattle I killed when I worked on the kill floor
What I am saying is this "genetic" thing has gotten out of hand JUST MY THINKING
Watch this board and you will see what I mean
examples I have seen
"My cow has pink eye" "Old 12 year old cow has big udder" "Cow just prolapsed" "My cow has a new calf and she tryes to fight me when I got in the lot with her" "First calf heifer we had to pull 100 lb calf"
ALMOST everytime you see post like these someone will start in with you need to cull the cow because it is genetic. Have even seen one person say cull the whole family any thing kin to the cow before this problem and any thing that has any of the same blood in it that this cow has. Can somethings be genetic sure it can but every cattle problem is not genetic.If I liked the heifer in question I would keep her then if she had a couple calves that were " hot headed" get rid of her. lot of the time calf will be like mom cause that is the way mom taught it to be. Just like one ol crazy cow can get the the whole herd acting stupid. ever heard the ol saying "Monkey see ,Monkey do"

 

[dun]

Can somethings be genetic sure it can but every cattle problem is not genetic.

We've all seen how genes can line up both negatively and postively. Same cow and bull for multiple years and no problems, then one year you get a crappy calf or a nut case or......................

 

[BRYANT]

We've all seen how genes can line up both negatively and postively. Same cow and bull for multiple years and no problems, then one year you get a crappy calf or a nut case or......................

So do you recomend cull crappy calf and all the calves that were good from the multiple years plus the cow and bull then any sisters to that cow must go cause they may have the same gene ???? where does it stop ??? Me one bad calf out of several well it would go then I go on just like I was befor the bad one.
That is the point I am trying to make some people go to the extream to hear them tell it on here but I think some talk the talk more than walk the walk. But if they are culling for genetic reasons like they say they are its gone to far.

 

[dun]

We've all seen how genes can line up both negatively and postively. Same cow and bull for multiple years and no problems, then one year you get a crappy calf or a nut case or......................

So do you recomend cull crappy calf and all the calves that were good from the multiple years plus the cow and bull then any sisters to that cow must go cause they may have the same gene ???? where does it stop ??? Me one bad calf out of several well it would go then I go on just like I was befor the bad one.
That is the point I am trying to make some people go to the extream to hear them tell it on here but I think some talk the talk more than walk the walk. But if they are culling for genetic reasons like they say they are its gone to far.

Since we had this happen with one cow all I did was culled the crappy calf. Actaully he just went to the salebanr instead of retaining ownership on him thrpugh the feedlot. We still have the old cow, one of her daughters and one grandaughter (the daughter is a full sister to the crap calf)

 

[Caustic Burno]

Amen on the nut case showing up once in a while, and there is nothing crazier than a Hereford nut case.
Make you scratch your head and wonder how it happens whole herd runs up for a range cube, and you need a 30-06 to catch the nut.
I paid way to many stupid taxes in my youth to pay them on a nut in my pasture now, acting a fool is a one way ticket to McDonalds or Burger King here.