Never had this happen

[Double R Ranch]

I guess we have been lucky so far. Now we don't know how to handle this situation.
While checking on our cows I noticed that one of them had placenta hanging. We looked in the field and saw birds and knew it wasn't good. The cow should not be due for atleast another week at the earliest. I found the calf dead and still looked as if it still had atleast a month til it should have been born. I brought the mother and dead calf up and checked the mom for milk. She had milk so I went to a local Dairy and got a 2 week old bull calf.
When I returned I put the mother in the squeeze and offered the calf her udders. He took it gladly and she stood for it. Yet in a pen together she wants nothing to do with him.
My question is:
1. What should I do to help them along and have her accept this calf as her own. I have read on here that her urine spread on the calf will help but I don't want to stick the calf in a pen with her til I know she will not hurt him.
2. What could have caused this cow to carry so long and then loose her calf.
Thank you in advance for the help.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

1. What should I do to help them along and have her accept this calf as her own. I have read on here that her urine spread on the calf will help but I don't want to stick the calf in a pen with her til I know she will not hurt him.

First, I would NEVER get a calf from another farm during calving season. The new calf may be the healthiest calf from a great farm, but it is carrying "bugs" that your herd is not immune to. You are risking all the other new born's health. But, now that you have it, you can keep the calf in a pen next to the cow, so she can see it & smell it. After nusing the cow for a few days, the calf's excrement will smell like the cow and that should help her accept it. Also, we use a product called O-No-Mo to sprinkle on the calf. Cows cannot resist licking it. Once the cow licks the calf, problem is usually solved. You need to put them together each time she nurses him - but watch them. If she is mean, seperate them.

2. What could have caused this cow to carry so long and then loose her calf.
Thank you in advance for the help.

Do you vaccinate? Lepto or IBR come to mind causing abortion. Also, there may have been another calf - twins aborting early is common. Or, maybe she just aborted - just like women - sometime there is no explainable reason. Hope this helps.

 

[Craig-TX]

First, I would NEVER get a calf from another farm during calving season. The new calf may be the healthiest calf from a great farm, but it is carrying "bugs" that your herd is not immune to. You are risking all the other new born's health.

That's a little over cautious to my way of thinking. We do it all the time in the sense that we calve year round and buy pairs off and on all year. Back when everybody had milk cows it was commonplace to get an orphan or two to put on the cow after milking. They would nurse alongside the cow's baby.

Craig-TX

 

[docgraybull]

First, I would NEVER get a calf from another farm during calving season.......Also, we use a product called O-No-Mo to sprinkle on the calf. Cows cannot resist licking it. Once the cow licks the calf, problem is usually solved.

Where do you get calves to graft onto calfless mama cows? Do you have spare bottle calves around for that purpose? The only options we have for graft calves are other farms (usually local dairies) or the sale barn.

 

[Hutch]

What would be the advantage to replacing the calf with another?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The only time we graft a calf on a "calfless" cow is if we have a set of twins. Yes, we used to graft dairy calves - never again. Not worth it. Either we ship the cow or give her another year.

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

What would be the advantage to replacing the calf with another?

In my thinking the biggest advantage is that you save a year's production in the cow and have a nice calf to sell after weaning. If you let the cow go dry--she isn't pulling her weight.

 

[Double R Ranch]

O.k. so here is an update.
The mom isn't producing very much milk. ALmost none. It has taken 2 days to get a little milk back so now we are bottle feeding a dairy cow that we don't need . She has sucessfully jumped my pen and destroyes some gates. As of wed. she will grow wheels (auction day).
The placenta is still hanging, smells horible and is discolored. It also has these spots that look like giant coliflower warts (sorry, the best way I know to describe it) I would like the placenta to drop before she is sold but I am unaware of how long it should take. I have never had any "hold on" this long.
After talking to a few cattleman and looking at the deciesed calf we have come to the conclusion that the calf had to have been dead in the cow for a few weeks. I am only assuming that this means that she has to have a nasty infection.
Anyone's thoughts on this matter would be oppreciated! :?:
P.S. Sorry about the spelling. It is very late and we have been up for a LONG time.

 

[dun]

cut your losses and ship her. If she cleans by then good, if she doesn't, oh well.

dun

 

[sidney411]

Will the dairy take the calf back? Or will you have to haul it to the sale also? The dairy tht I get calves from will take them back in a few days if they don't work out with the cow. I don't know how much you paid for the calf but in my case I would probably lose money taking them to the sale.
Just a thought.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

If the cow hasn't cleaned, you can cut it off. Pull it lightly & cut near the vulva. It should suck back in. Even if you were going to keep the cow, that is what they recommend doing now - and treating with uterine boluses. But don't treat your cow before shipping.
The cauliflower (sp?) circles are the cardiledens (sp?). That's what they refer to as the "buttons". When they used to remove the placenta, they would go inside the cow & "unbutton" the cardelidens. Now they DO NOT recommend removing the placenta.

 

[Chuckie]

I cannot find O-No-Mo powder anywhere. Is this advertised under a new name? What company can it be purchased from?

 

[jerry27150]

jeane hit it exactly

 

[Beefy]

milk-
if she was milking well at first and is not now it is because of the retained placenta/infection. Most of the time (notice this if you havent before) cows with RP will have crappy looking calves until they have recovered from the RP b/c of their decrease in milk production. if she wasnt milking good to begin with its probably b/c she aborted and didnt come into her milk like she was supposed to. in the future i would only consider getting another calf for cows that carry a calf to term, if then.

about the retained placenta-
if you are going to sell her open, she will probably go to slaughter anyway, so why not just pull on the RP lightly and see if it comes out (EASILY!). That way she could maybe clean up on the outside in a weeks time. i know its not recommended but in the past i have snuck up on a cow eating and gently pulled on RP and it has come right out without the cow even noticing. I dont recommend anyone else doing that though, and yes i know the consequences. I have done this 3 times (with plastic in my hand so i dont touch the nasty smelling funk) and all of these cases bred back within 60 days. usually though, i just leave it hanging but you can also tie it in a knot or cut it like jeanne suggested. i just dont like the idea of something decaying going back into anything but thats just me. Also, hit the girl with some penicillin.

 

[dun]

Also, hit the girl with some penicillin.

If you hit her with any antibiotic you'll need to keep her till the withdrawl time for it has passed.

dun

 

[CattleAnnie]

If you're still game to make a go of it you might try this.

Recipe For Unco-operative Graft Cows (ones that reject the easy way)

1. Run the old boot back into the squeeze/headgate.

2. Tie up a back leg so she can't kick the calf.

3. Give her 3 cc of Oxytocin (cheap like borscht but great stuff).

4. Wait ten minutes for the Oxy to kick in. She will NOT be able to hold her milk up.

5. Let the calf have a go nursing her out.

6. Put either a flank rope (I've never tried one, but I've heard great things about them) or a set of hobbles (my personal favorite) on that old crotch of a cow. If she can kick with the hobbles on, tighten them up again.

7. Keeping the calf away from her for half an hour, let her figure out how to get around with her new 'anti-calf-kicking' device on. With the hobbles she might only be able to go backwards for a while, but she'll soon become somewhat proficient at a gimped up Geisha like movement.

8. Introduce the calf back into a small pen with her. You many have to keep calf seperated from dumb beast except to chase her back into squeeze for feedings for a day or two. Keep her isolated from other cattle. Sucks to be her, but who cares at this point. I'm mean, if they knock the calf over I whap the cow over the head with the cane. Takes their mind off being onery to the calf. Gives me a chance to bond with the cow. I usually hang around for a good half an hour once their penned together to make sure she's settling in, unless I've got to assist on a delivery in the meantime.

9. Haul feed and water to her for a few days until she finally gets it through her thick skull that she loves that calf. Some cows take more time, some less.

10. If all else fails, sell the darn calf and enjoy lots of hamburger from dud cow this summer when you fire up the BBQ. So far I haven't had to BBQ any of the graft cows, but I always tell them it's their other option if they flunk out of motherhood school. Last year Honey and I finally gave up on one pair, took the hobbles off the reject and figured to send her once she fleshed out a bit more and the bloody idiot came back to the pens looking for the calf she'd convinced us for over a week that she hated.

That was a good day. Good luck with the cow. Remember, this is the good clean life that the city folk envy.

Take care.

ps. I don't worry too much about the afterbirth. Cows are pretty tough and can dangle some fairly disgusting placenta for quite a while and still stay healthy. Gross but that's the nature of the beast. If you find that you're having quite a few that don't clean properly check your mineral ration. May be missing something vital.

pss. I imagine this will offend some folks, so I apologise in advance to those reading this that have a coronary. Sometimes after the umpteenth calf of the year when it's blizzarding and you're dealing with a situation like this and running on zero sleep you just resort to realising that sometimes what works isn't pretty or nice. Real life very often doesn't smell that way either, come to think of it.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I cannot find O-No-Mo powder anywhere. Is this advertised under a new name? What company can it be purchased from?

I checked my catalogs and couldn't find it. Magrath O-No-Mo Calf Claimer. My bottle has a # 1-800-445-9254 - but that is ancient - lasts forever. I googled it & got Jeffers Livestock 1-800-533-3377 - I think it said $7.95 bottle.
Also, Livestock Concepts 1-800-225-7399 has a product called Calf Claim, #5349 - $8.20 6 oz - sounds like the same stuff.
It is a great product, cows just can't seem to resist licking it. It will really kick in the mothering instinct if you have a problem. Even with a first calf heifer that is a bit slow at licking, it usually will get them working at it harder.

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

Cattle Annie--I especially liked the

8. Introduce the calf back into a small pen with her. You many have to keep calf seperated from dumb beast except to chase her back into squeeze for feedings for a day or two. Keep her isolated from other cattle. Sucks to be her, but who cares at this point. I'm mean, if they knock the calf over I whap the cow over the head with the cane. Takes their mind off being onery to the calf. Gives me a chance to bond with the cow. I usually hang around for a good half an hour once their penned together to make sure she's settling in, unless I've got to assist on a delivery in the meantime

"Bonding with your Cow!" ;-)

 

[dun]

All of these wonderous calf claiming deals are pretty useless if the cow aborted early enough that she doesn't have adequate milk

dun

 

[CattleAnnie]

True but had a strange thing happen last year with a cow that I'd bought as a bred.

She aborted when the calf was about a month from full term. No idea why, just did. Maybe somebody bunted her, maybe she slipped on the ice.

I had this orphan that I'd been bottling for three weeks until a likely graft cow came available (Honey and I call bums like him and twins 'insurance' calves as it means that in case of a death you've got a backup animal). His old momma twinned and died a week later, and I'd already grafted his sister onto a cow who had a backwards calf born with the bag over his head (missed that one by five minutes tops - maddening).

Anyway, the cow that aborted was a second calver, and really didn't make much of a bag, but she seemed mildly interested in her dead calf, so I figured what the heck after a couple days of mulling it over decided to pen her with the bum calf. Getting sick of mixing and buying calf replacer.

Ran her into the maternity pen, got him on those little teats and off he went. Wasn't much there but he cleaned out what there was. I kept running him in with her three times a day and still supplementing him with a couple of bottles a day and after a week he quit coming out to me when I brought his bottle.

I was suprised cause she sure didn't look like she had much milk, but he was full through the flanks and obviously not interested. She decided she loved him, always grooming the will-nots on his behind and calling after him when he wandered off, so I kicked them both out into the big bunch.

He was a late March calf. My son wanted him for his 4H steer, and when we weaned in early Nov he weighed 584 lbs. Not too bad for an orphan and a cow that aborted a month before term.

Anyone else ever come across a situation like this before?

Take care.