Neglected Pasture/Hay Field Help Needed

[ClinchValley]

Roughly 7 months ago my father and I acquired my grandfather's <100 acre farm when he decided he was too old and too tired to fool with it (he began losing calves due to lack of interest).

We have roughly 30 acres wooded, and 70 acres between pasture and hay fields, round a 35/65 split hay/pasture, which has been neglected for many many years. According to him it consists of fescue, clover and rye.

Firstly, I was under the impression that ryegrass didn't come back year after year. That it had to be sewn each fall. Is this correct?

Secondly, this farm has seen no type of grounds maintenance. No fertilizer, except what the clover and cattle put back in the ground. Upon first glance, it is clear the PH is way off. It mucks up very fast, I am assuming because of shallowish roots. The weeds have almost taken over in the pasture grounds. Hay fields have lots of weeds. To be honest, I would be almost embarrassed if someone looked in our hay barn, and I am new at this. Needless to say I have been throwing them some grain along with the hay. Cattle are not bone bags, would say they look good. Didn't want anything to think I am starving them.

We bought two types of weed killer. Cannot recall off top of my head which we got. One is like round-up. The other is safe for grasses but kills weeds. Forgive my mind.

It is taking a considerable amount of effort and money to get this place back in shape. I am looking for best bang for my buck most of the time…And am not afraid of work. Have been cutting cedars for months to refence the place. Needless to say we are limited on funds. He and I both are having to slow down as far as buying things go.

Which presents my question(s):

Fertilizer or Lime? The way I see it is this, if you PH is off, you can fert all you want, but the plants will not be able to absorb it. Therefore, I think to lime the property would have the greatest impact. For all we know, there is plenty of NPK in the soil as is, it just cannot be absorbed.

How do I go about cleaning up the pasture/hay fields? Would it benefit me to overseed? Get the grass cut down low and overseed? Would the quick growing grass choke out the weeds?

I would prefer a no-til approach, as we have a good foundation of clover throughout. Simply put, the weeds are taking over. But, if its more practical, we could til.



What would you all do? What would be your approach? I am all ears. Seeking wisdom…




I am just overwhelmed. This farm is not in the condition I remember as a kid. I desperately want it back in good operating condition.

On paper, it is hard to get this place back to par with a herd less than 20 head. But the grounds need to be there to support them.



I have or have access to lost of equipment/implements. May not know how to operate them yet :mrgreen: , but am not scared to learn. e

 

[ClinchValley]

Sidenote: I have the herd confined to the front pasture around the house. It is between 15-20 acres. My thinking is it would save the rest of the property from being mucked up. Is my thinking here flawed? Is there a benefit I am not seeing to allowing them to roam the entire property. In my area, it appears most people leave the gates open. Cattle go where cattle want to go.

Thoughts?

 

[M-5]

1. pull a soil Test. 2. work within your means to amend it. 3. take one parcel at a time. 4. quit worrying about what others think and trying to make it worthy of a magazine cover.

Grazon , 2-4-d will kill broadleaf weeds and not grass .

 

[dun]

I'll try to address the questions I remember from reading the whole post. Perennial ryegrass will come back year after year, annual rye needs to be reseeded. Lime is a better bang for your buck then fertilizer until the ph gets at least close to where it needs to be. Lots of soil samples are needed to really get a handle on what is needed where. If you could fire burn the fields in the late spring/early summer that might help with the weeds, or maybe early fall. Not sure since it depends on the weeds. One of the 2,4-d based herbicides will get the broadleaf weeds and not affect the grass. BUT, it will also hammer the clover. That's why I'm thinking may fire would work best. Do some research into MIG (Management Intensive Grazing) and rotational grazing. If there is a grazing school put on by usually NRCS sometimes by the Extension office that will be a big plus. After grazing school you may be able to get into some of the programs for pasture, fence, etc with NRCS. Different programs cost share different percentages but it can be a huge help. Some (on here) will bytch about being on the government teat. If it doesn;t persoanly bother you getting assistance, screw what others say.

 

[True Grit Farms]

It's just hard to be against taxation without representation and the wasteful spending of tax dollars, then accept tax dollars for private use. Just seems hypocritical to me.
But if your good with it that's all that matters.

 

[ClinchValley]

By no means do I really care what others think. I solely care that the animals are adequately taken care of. Was simply conveying the quality of the hay. Living one's life concerned what others think will get you no where in life IMO.

My father and I were speaking about government programs last night. That is at the top of our list right now. Generally, I am not one to get involved in government programs, but if the help is there, who not take it. That is what it is there for.

I have been reading up on rotational grazing and such. But that requires fencing materials to be had. This property is broken into 5 sections large fields, 2 being for hay. The largest section being probably 30 acres. I would love to split this large pasture into 4-6 smaller sections. Possibly by the time warm weather arrives our farm fund will be better. Hopefully.



2-4-D is what I was trying to think of. I have 5 gallons of it and 5 gallons of the spot spray stuff. I do not want to kill out the clover, so would the best course of action be to over seed the hay fields, which is where the clover is growing best.

All in due time I suppose. I am learning quickly that nothing comes fast in this business. LOL. Patience IS the ultimate virtue.

I will probably put lime to the whole place. And focus on getting the hay fields in order first. Maybe just overseed the pasture fields. Would it be good to bush hog the weeds if they start to get any size to them throughout the warm months?

Sorry for all the questions. My mind is full of them right now.

Thanks you all. Have a good Friday.

 

[ClinchValley]

It's just hard to be against taxation without representation and the wasteful spending of tax dollars, then accept tax dollars for private use. Just seems hypocritical to me.
But if your good with it that's all that matters.

I couldn't agree with you more. But there is nothing in the short term we can do to stop it. If the help is there though, might as well take it. For a small operation like we have here, it would help out a lot.

Never in my life have I gotten any government assistance, but there is something in my head saying take it. I pay in, so why not get some of it back, right?

 

[Ebenezer]

Fertilizer or Lime?

If your soil needs it, lime.

How do I go about cleaning up the pasture/hay fields? Would it benefit me to overseed? Get the grass cut down low and overseed? Would the quick growing grass choke out the weeds?

Mowing generally helps to control woody vegetation. Mixed species grazing controls woody vegetation and some annuals. Thick and healthy mix of grass and legumes controls annual weeds the best.

I would prefer a no-til approach, as we have a good foundation of clover throughout. Simply put, the weeds are taking over. But, if its more practical, we could til.

Go no-till to preserve soil carbon.

What would you all do? What would be your approach? I am all ears. Seeking wisdom…

Can you get broiler or breeder hen litter? Or buy in and unroll well fertilized hay.

Fencing: you can step away from old interior fences for now with a strand or two of HT wire. When money or programs happen later you can clear old fence rows as desired. Or use poliwire and step-in posts for now.

Perimeter fencing: take the chances or put up a good one? I go with the safe option.

Grass or forage species will not stop plugging of pastures in wet weather. One option is to lot and feed hay during the wettest times. Other option is to let them have more acres to spread out and trample one area less. Other option is let them plug it up, smooth it and plant desired legumes there. The old KY 31 fescue will take trampling and recover or reseed to fill back in better than about anything else. Studies have shown KY31 and legumes to be the most economical grazing combo in several trials.

Pesticides/herbicides are all % control. Great broadleaf control is clover death unless you do something like wick, recirculating sprayer or use something like 24D in mid summer when clovers are dormant. I'd rather have legumes and weeds than fewer weeds.

 

[Ebenezer]

One other comment for what it is worth. Commercial fertilizers of acid treated rock, salt based(most) and high levels of nitrogen applications will work against legumes and their health.

 

[Rajela]

Soil Test.............Soil Test...........apply as much of the recommended as you can and weed spray...Weed Spray......clover can be reseeded later.

 

[shaz]

Spray is going to give you your best bang for the buck. I like Grazon personally.
If it comes down to a choice between fertilizer and lime then spend your money on the lime.

 

[Tim/South]

Do you have a bush hog type mower? Maybe you can take small sections at a time and clip the tops of the weeds and not get down to the desired grasses and clover. Just depends on the type of weeds.
I agree that lime would be my first choice over fertilizer.
You will have cool season weeds and warm season weeds, just like grasses. Do not get discouraged of it looks food in the summer and different weeds come energy during the fall or spring.

Check with your FSA and also your local Soil and Water Conservation offices to see what programs are out there. Soil and Water has the EQUIP program that will help with cross fencing. Those offices are funded by your tax dollars. Get as much back as you can and you will never come close to getting what you paid in.

 

[JMJ Farms]

It's just hard to be against taxation without representation and the wasteful spending of tax dollars, then accept tax dollars for private use. Just seems hypocritical to me.
But if your good with it that's all that matters.

My take on it is this. I'm against the govt subsidizing anyone or anything. However, as long as they take my tax dollars and pi$$ them to rebuild foreign countries, finance big business, and whatnot, then I'm gonna give them as little as I can get by with and get as much as I possibly can back out of them.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Well I have nothing else to say about the government. But if it was me I wouldn't be killing my clover off, it's acclimated to your environment and established. Lime will also help your battle with the weeds.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Well I have nothing else to say about the government. But if it was me I wouldn't be killing my clover off, it's acclimated to your environment and established. Lime will also help your battle with the weeds.

I agree. Bringing the PH up and fertilizing properly along with mowing will help control weeds. However financially you may be better off to spray with herbicides and replant clover. ? IDK. Have to sit down and put a pencil on it. I used a good bit of Surmount last year with good results. And also Metcel. I'm assuming both would kill the clover though.

I think if it was me I'd try the non herbicide route with mowing the first year if it would save my clover. You will probably knock a big dent in the weeds.

 

[kenny thomas]

Treadway, TN home of about the best lime in the USA. This is not a guess, the tests show it. The Zinc mines that are there have lime as a waste product and that is where many of us in VA and a large area of TN get our lime. Get a soil test before you spend another dime on the property. If lime is needed I bet you can get it spread there for less than $10 a ton. Very cheap way to start. As someone stated the fertilizer may not work if the PH is off and lime is needed. Can't remember if you are in Hancock Co, I think that's it but call your local extension office and ask for the Ag agent to come out and give you some advice. Another member on Cattle Today bought a house and farm in Treadway last year.
By the Way, I an straight north of you probably 20 miles so I am very familiar with your area.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Informative post Mr. Thomas.

 

[ClinchValley]

Kenny Thomas - Ha. That's awesome! If you need help ever I am all about learning something. Technically not Hancock but close enough. With strong winds blowing E the lime is in the air! The old timers claim this puts plenty of lime on the grounds. I would have to disagree. All I seem to be growing is broom sage. I am of the train of thought lime/fert would burn the weeds up for the most part.

The price quoted for lime was $10/ton spread. Which seemed very fair. If I had a spreader I would have free access to it. But do not.

I am going to get on top of taking some samples and having them checked.

Everytime I go get a bale of hay I have this feeling in my gut. Wish it was better. Not that it is CRAP. But could be much better.

BTW, our clover is very well established. I would like to avoid killing it out at most costs. It gets over waste high in places and is very thick. 1/4-1/2 of one of the hayfields is loaded. It also happens to be the field with the worst amount of weeds. As it used to be used as a tobacco field. When tobacco was discontinued it was over seeded once and left alone. It is the worst by far. But in the last 10 years those weeds have seeded weeds everywhere else.

Daily I see our brown ground farm sitting in between two farms that are like a crayola crayon. Time for those test samples.

Thanks a lot everyone. Have a good weekend.

 

[hillbilly beef man]

Kenny Thomas - Ha. That's awesome! If you need help ever I am all about learning something. Technically not Hancock but close enough. With strong winds blowing E the lime is in the air! The old timers claim this puts plenty of lime on the grounds. I would have to disagree. All I seem to be growing is broom sage. I am of the train of thought lime/fert would burn the weeds up for the most part.

The price quoted for lime was $10/ton spread. Which seemed very fair. If I had a spreader I would have free access to it. But do not.

I am going to get on top of taking some samples and having them checked.

Everytime I go get a bale of hay I have this feeling in my gut. Wish it was better. Not that it is CRAP. But could be much better.

BTW, our clover is very well established. I would like to avoid killing it out at most costs. It gets over waste high in places and is very thick. 1/4-1/2 of one of the hayfields is loaded. It also happens to be the field with the worst amount of weeds. As it used to be used as a tobacco field. When tobacco was discontinued it was over seeded once and left alone. It is the worst by far. But in the last 10 years those weeds have seeded weeds everywhere else.

Daily I see our brown ground farm sitting in between two farms that are like a crayola crayon. Time for those test samples.

Thanks a lot everyone. Have a good weekend.

$10 a ton spread? Wow. It is $32 spread and $19 picked up at the quarry here.

 

[JMJ Farms]

$35/ton spread here. If you do decide to use herbicides, remember that Grazon kills good seeds with the bad seeds.