Need some opinions/ideas

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Lannie

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We have a porcupine. We also have a couple of REALLY stupid dogs. Maggie (Akbash female) got quilled several times, but there weren't very many each time, and I was able to get them out with some effort. Mind you, it's just me trying to hold a squirming dog with one hand and work pliers with the other hand. I couldn't get the last three quills out of her bottom lip the last time. She just wasn't having it, and even with my husband trying to help (he's old and not very strong), I couldn't get them. They're currently working their way out the bottom side of her chin. So fortunately, she's been staying clear of Evil Dr. Porcupine. However, now my brave young man, Conan (Maggie's 7 month old partner) has started biting the porcupine. Yesterday morning, he had about 20 quills in his lips and chin, and I was able to pull them out with no problem by myself. He was brave and stoic, and didn't even cry or flinch.

This morning, he has a forest of quills and he's not wanting me to help him. I managed to grab three batches (several at a time - there's a LOT), but he cried and snarled each time, then ran off a bit and won't let me get near him now.

Take him to the vet, you say? Yeah, there is a vet, 30 miles away, but she's not a good vet, and when we called last Thursday for Maggie's last quilling, they told us the soonest we could bring her in would be Monday. Apparently a face full of quills is not an emergency. That is unacceptable. I have to be my own vet here, as usual. I'm going to ask (more like DEMAND) they sell me some of the injectable sedative they give in the office when they're pulling quills. However, they might still say no. Meanwhile, I still have one poor dog with a chin full of quills who can't eat or drink, and I'd like to help him. The best thing to do would be to blast Mr. Porcupine into a million tiny pieces, but we haven't been able to find the evil creature. The quillings seem to happen in the wee hours, when we hoomans are asleep in our beds. And even if we got ONE porcupine, there will be others. Why can't the dogs figure out that biting them is bad? They're so smart in other ways...

Does ANYONE have any ideas? I'm sure a lot of you have had quilled dogs before and no vet handy. How did you do it? Do I need to call some strong neighbors? I'm just at a loss right now, and it hurts my heart to see my sweet boy with all those pins in his face.
 
Lannie said:
We have a porcupine. We also have a couple of REALLY stupid dogs. Maggie (Akbash female) got quilled several times, but there weren't very many each time, and I was able to get them out with some effort. Mind you, it's just me trying to hold a squirming dog with one hand and work pliers with the other hand. I couldn't get the last three quills out of her bottom lip the last time. She just wasn't having it, and even with my husband trying to help (he's old and not very strong), I couldn't get them. They're currently working their way out the bottom side of her chin. So fortunately, she's been staying clear of Evil Dr. Porcupine. However, now my brave young man, Conan (Maggie's 7 month old partner) has started biting the porcupine. Yesterday morning, he had about 20 quills in his lips and chin, and I was able to pull them out with no problem by myself. He was brave and stoic, and didn't even cry or flinch.

This morning, he has a forest of quills and he's not wanting me to help him. I managed to grab three batches (several at a time - there's a LOT), but he cried and snarled each time, then ran off a bit and won't let me get near him now.

Take him to the vet, you say? Yeah, there is a vet, 30 miles away, but she's not a good vet, and when we called last Thursday for Maggie's last quilling, they told us the soonest we could bring her in would be Monday. Apparently a face full of quills is not an emergency. That is unacceptable. I have to be my own vet here, as usual. I'm going to ask (more like DEMAND) they sell me some of the injectable sedative they give in the office when they're pulling quills. However, they might still say no. Meanwhile, I still have one poor dog with a chin full of quills who can't eat or drink, and I'd like to help him. The best thing to do would be to blast Mr. Porcupine into a million tiny pieces, but we haven't been able to find the evil creature. The quillings seem to happen in the wee hours, when we hoomans are asleep in our beds. And even if we got ONE porcupine, there will be others. Why can't the dogs figure out that biting them is bad? They're so smart in other ways...

Does ANYONE have any ideas? I'm sure a lot of you have had quilled dogs before and no vet handy. How did you do it? Do I need to call some strong neighbors? I'm just at a loss right now, and it hurts my heart to see my sweet boy with all those pins in his face.
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Crate your dogs at night. Are they house broke? Keep them in the house. If nothing else, chain them at night.

As for your vet issues... I KNOW there are more than one vet in South Dakota. Quills will kill your dog. You already know this.
 
They're LGDs, not house dogs. I don't have crates for them. Wouldn't that pretty much negate their function?

There are lots of vets in South Dakota. The next closest one is 100 miles away. Same problem with getting them in (I already called, but I'm a "new client" to them, so at the bottom of the urgency list), and I can't see having to drive 200 miles a day, plus vet bills, to de-quill the dogs. There has to be a way I can do it myself.

I'll just do the best I can for now and then demand sedatives or pain killers (or both) from the vet tomorrow so I can do my own vetting in the future. Forget I asked.
 
Lannie said:
They're LGDs, not house dogs. I don't have crates for them. Wouldn't that pretty much negate their function?

There are lots of vets in South Dakota. The next closest one is 100 miles away. Same problem with getting them in (I already called, but I'm a "new client" to them, so at the bottom of the urgency list), and I can't see having to drive 200 miles a day, plus vet bills, to de-quill the dogs. There has to be a way I can do it myself.

I'll just do the best I can for now and then demand sedatives or pain killers (or both) from the vet tomorrow so I can do my own vetting in the future. Forget I asked.
Click to expand...
You must live in Faith. A hundred miles from nowhere...

I wish I had something to say that you like. You're in a tough situation. The things I mentioned are the best solutions I have, even when they are bad solutions to you. I hope someone here has better suggestions that are something you want to hear. I wish you well.
 
Chemical sedation is the only answer I think and you need them virtually anaesthetised. I would think you will have much more luck getting some drugs by nicely explaining the situation than demanding they sell you something. At the best I would think you might get some sedative like Acetyl Promazine and Xylazine. Remember when you sedate an animal leave it very quite and calm for the sedative to have max effect and then quitely do what you have to with minimal disturbance to it. Excitement will quickly wake them up from their slumber.

Ken
 
Yes, Faith. 30 miles outside Faith, actually, but being literally in the middle of nowhere, Faith is our post office.

I have acepromazine, and I did use a dose of that on the other dog when she got quilled, although I don't think it did much more than make her a little loopy. She still felt the quills coming out, but she never offered to bite me. She just threw her head back and forth, so we had to remove hers in stages, with naps in between for her to settle back down.

The boy, different story. Man, he was so scared, he was screaming at one point. But, we finally got him to a vet. It's a long story, so I'll shorten it to say, a friend of a friend of a friend knows one of the vets in Sturgis, and I was able to contact him at home and he said he could meet us at his clinic in the afternoon, so we loaded up the dog and headed out. By some weird coincidence, the vet turned out to be my old horse vet that I used when I had my TB mare. But he likes dogs, and knows his way around them, so he did just fine. He used dexdomitor IM for 80 pounds (Conan weighed 71 on the scale), but he just would NOT GO DOWN. We waited 20 or 25 minutes, until he was drowsy enough to get out of the truck without flipping out too badly, then the vet gave him another 30 pounds worth IV and that finally did the trick. It took less than one minute to pull the remaining quills out. That's what was so frustrating. There were probably only 15 or 20 left (I got the rest out earlier in the day), but I couldn't get those last few. GAH!

It started snowing on our way home, and it was after 7:00pm when we finally got back, so I'm hoping the inclement weather kept the porcupines huddled up somewhere. For sure the dogs were huddled up in one of the barns - I never heard a peep out of them all night. My husband says he's going to have to go out with a flashlight and a varmint gun tonight or tomorrow night and try to find that (those?) porcupine and eliminate him. Just the one vet visit was $350 (but that included the "emergency" fee). Still, can't be doing that every day.

I'm sorry that Conan was so traumatized by yesterday's events, but I can only hope he's learned something by it. Like, trying to bite spiky rodents is maybe a bad idea? I dunno, he's a teenage boy. Maybe he learned nothing. All I can do is try to survive with my wits intact until he grows up.

Oh, and by the way, when I said I was going to "demand," I didn't mean I was going to be a you-know-what-about it. I'm always nice. In fact, I was so nice, the vet did give me another dose of everything in case Conan didn't learn his lesson yesterday. But that stuff is spendy! $37.50 per CC he said. That's why the bill was so high. That's alright, though. It's nothing when compared to his value, and it will save us the money for a second vet trip. (You KNOW he's gonna get quilled again.)
 
Yes, let the air out of one, and hope there was only one. If not then maybe the others were watching so they'd know not to go to that house for trick or treats anymore.

Good luck.
 
Lannie said:
Yes, Faith. 30 miles outside Faith, actually, but being literally in the middle of nowhere, Faith is our post office.

I have acepromazine, and I did use a dose of that on the other dog when she got quilled, although I don't think it did much more than make her a little loopy. She still felt the quills coming out, but she never offered to bite me. She just threw her head back and forth, so we had to remove hers in stages, with naps in between for her to settle back down.

The boy, different story. Man, he was so scared, he was screaming at one point. But, we finally got him to a vet. It's a long story, so I'll shorten it to say, a friend of a friend of a friend knows one of the vets in Sturgis, and I was able to contact him at home and he said he could meet us at his clinic in the afternoon, so we loaded up the dog and headed out. By some weird coincidence, the vet turned out to be my old horse vet that I used when I had my TB mare. But he likes dogs, and knows his way around them, so he did just fine. He used dexdomitor IM for 80 pounds (Conan weighed 71 on the scale), but he just would NOT GO DOWN. We waited 20 or 25 minutes, until he was drowsy enough to get out of the truck without flipping out too badly, then the vet gave him another 30 pounds worth IV and that finally did the trick. It took less than one minute to pull the remaining quills out. That's what was so frustrating. There were probably only 15 or 20 left (I got the rest out earlier in the day), but I couldn't get those last few. GAH!

It started snowing on our way home, and it was after 7:00pm when we finally got back, so I'm hoping the inclement weather kept the porcupines huddled up somewhere. For sure the dogs were huddled up in one of the barns - I never heard a peep out of them all night. My husband says he's going to have to go out with a flashlight and a varmint gun tonight or tomorrow night and try to find that (those?) porcupine and eliminate him. Just the one vet visit was $350 (but that included the "emergency" fee). Still, can't be doing that every day.

I'm sorry that Conan was so traumatized by yesterday's events, but I can only hope he's learned something by it. Like, trying to bite spiky rodents is maybe a bad idea? I dunno, he's a teenage boy. Maybe he learned nothing. All I can do is try to survive with my wits intact until he grows up.

Oh, and by the way, when I said I was going to "demand," I didn't mean I was going to be a you-know-what-about it. I'm always nice. In fact, I was so nice, the vet did give me another dose of everything in case Conan didn't learn his lesson yesterday. But that stuff is spendy! $37.50 per CC he said. That's why the bill was so high. That's alright, though. It's nothing when compared to his value, and it will save us the money for a second vet trip. (You KNOW he's gonna get quilled again.)
Click to expand...
You might look into a Bayer product called Tri-Solfen if it is available there. It is a topical anaesthetic used for pain relief with castrating calves, (pain relief for procedures is becoming big here, gotta look like you are doing something). A veterinary colleague not too far away from here used it on the udders of her Angus stud cows after they got badly burned in grass fires. She told me she was amazed with the response and that it gave them obvious relief for several days. Again you would have to put it on and give it time before trying to pull the quills. Might help, might not, only drawback is the cost due to the pack size.

Ken
 
Lannie said:
We have a porcupine. We also have a couple of REALLY stupid dogs. Maggie (Akbash female) got quilled several times, but there weren't very many each time, and I was able to get them out with some effort. Mind you, it's just me trying to hold a squirming dog with one hand and work pliers with the other hand. I couldn't get the last three quills out of her bottom lip the last time. She just wasn't having it, and even with my husband trying to help (he's old and not very strong), I couldn't get them. They're currently working their way out the bottom side of her chin. So fortunately, she's been staying clear of Evil Dr. Porcupine. However, now my brave young man, Conan (Maggie's 7 month old partner) has started biting the porcupine. Yesterday morning, he had about 20 quills in his lips and chin, and I was able to pull them out with no problem by myself. He was brave and stoic, and didn't even cry or flinch.

This morning, he has a forest of quills and he's not wanting me to help him. I managed to grab three batches (several at a time - there's a LOT), but he cried and snarled each time, then ran off a bit and won't let me get near him now.

Take him to the vet, you say? Yeah, there is a vet, 30 miles away, but she's not a good vet, and when we called last Thursday for Maggie's last quilling, they told us the soonest we could bring her in would be Monday. Apparently a face full of quills is not an emergency. That is unacceptable. I have to be my own vet here, as usual. I'm going to ask (more like DEMAND) they sell me some of the injectable sedative they give in the office when they're pulling quills. However, they might still say no. Meanwhile, I still have one poor dog with a chin full of quills who can't eat or drink, and I'd like to help him. The best thing to do would be to blast Mr. Porcupine into a million tiny pieces, but we haven't been able to find the evil creature. The quillings seem to happen in the wee hours, when we hoomans are asleep in our beds. And even if we got ONE porcupine, there will be others. Why can't the dogs figure out that biting them is bad? They're so smart in other ways...

Does ANYONE have any ideas? I'm sure a lot of you have had quilled dogs before and no vet handy. How did you do it? Do I need to call some strong neighbors? I'm just at a loss right now, and it hurts my heart to see my sweet boy with all those pins in his face.
Click to expand...
My wife does all our de-quilling. She swears if you cut the quills off about 1/2" from the end they will pull right out. Good luck
 
Thanks for the ideas! I looked up Tri-Solfen, and only found ONE site, in Australia, that mentions it, so it's probably local to Oz. I do have one more set of sedative injections, but I'll see if I can't get some kind of lidocaine type thing I can use for any future episodes.

I had a horrid thought yesterday - that even if we DO find and let the air out of (LOL!) the porcupine, if the stupid dog (I'm speaking of Conan the Teenage Boy here) tries to pick it up, which he will, he's going to get quills all inside his mouth. So if we manage to off the prickly guy, I think we need to toss him in the back of the pickup and give him a burial somewhere far, far away from here. Like, miles away.

I thought we might get lucky last night, in fact. The dogs went off all at once, between the house and the shop, and hubs ran (figuratively speaking, LOL!) outside with a flashlight and a gun, but by then the dogs were all the way on the other side of the property, so they must have heard the coyotes. I was hoping they were barking at the porcupine and that we could end the problem right there, but it was not to be. We'll just keep trying.
 
birdog said:
My wife does all our de-quilling. She swears if you cut the quills off about 1/2" from the end they will pull right out. Good luck
Click to expand...
@Lannie

This is what wife did when our dog got hit. Granted it was only a few. And ours is an inside dog. He's a very good boy, and let her do what needed done. But he's always like that.
 
I've always heard that, about cutting them off to let the air out, but the vet said never cut them. Something about it being harder to grasp and pull, and greater possibility of breaking or splitting. I've always pulled them out without cutting (simply because I didn't want to have to touch each quill twice!), and the vet left them whole, too. I did an internet search and all the vet sites I found say don't cut, and all the "my granddaddy said" sites say do cut. I guess it's a personal decision. ;)

Regarding my wild boy, Conan, so far no more quills. He and Maggie were barking wildly at SOMETHING this morning at 4:00, so I got out of bed and got dressed quick as I could, grabbed the flashlight and my revolver, and went outside. I don't know what they were hollering about, because when they heard the door, they both ran up and started wiggling their butts and checking my pockets for cookies. It must not have been serious, whatever it was. And they were between the house and the driveway gate, not somewhere you'd expect to see a porcupine. Someone probably drove by too slowly, or turned around in our driveway apron. :rolleyes:
 
birdog said:
My wife does all our de-quilling. She swears if you cut the quills off about 1/2" from the end they will pull right out. Good luck
Click to expand...
Hunting buddy had his dog quilled up again on a Saturday. Went to the Emergency Clinic and sat there for a couple hours before getting tired of waiting. Guess quills are not an emergency. So they went outside, and he started pulling quills with the dog sitting on the tail gate. Soon a vet tech ran outside and said people in the waiting room were really upset - - so now they would see him immediately.
 
Stocker Steve said:
Why cut them off?
Click to expand...
They are hollow. Cutting them off allows the quill to shrink and slide out easier. Just get ahold of the dog and get it done as quickly as possible. The porcupine will most likely be hiding in a tree if you have any. They also love salt. Move any salt well away from the dogs.
 

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