NAIS and Don Quixote

[dun]

From some of the other boards I see a lot of people that think the NAIS will never happen here. All kinds of theorys from it's a government plot to take away civil rights to being sued if someone eats a hamburger and gets sick. I supose that could be extrapolated to eating a tough piece of meat and being sued.
If we want to play in the world commercial market for beef, it's gotta get done. Simple as that. I don;t like it, but I know we got paid a couple of cents a cwt for some heifers we verified the age on. The only way for age verification to work and meat trace back too, is to get on the band wagon and support NAIS. If you're not involved you don;t have a voice.
So for those that are playing ostrich or Don Quixote and tilting at windmills, get you head out of your hole and get on board.
End of my editorial

dun

 

[dj]

Did the premium pay the cost of the QSA tags?
I'm trying to decide if I want to order.
The only market that would bring a premium for source and age verification triples my transportation costs.
The advertised the first big sale and the premiums, but haven't seen anything else for follow up sales.

 

[WORANCH]

From some of the other boards I see a lot of people that think the NAIS will never happen here. All kinds of theorys from it's a government plot to take away civil rights to being sued if someone eats a hamburger and gets sick. I supose that could be extrapolated to eating a tough piece of meat and being sued.
If we want to play in the world commercial market for beef, it's gotta get done. Simple as that. I don;t like it, but I know we got paid a couple of cents a cwt for some heifers we verified the age on. The only way for age verification to work and meat trace back too, is to get on the band wagon and support NAIS. If you're not involved you don;t have a voice.
So for those that are playing ostrich or Don Quixote and tilting at windmills, get you head out of your hole and get on board.
End of my editorial

dun

:clap: :clap: Great post

 

[dun]

Did the premium pay the cost of the QSA tags?
I'm trying to decide if I want to order.
The only market that would bring a premium for source and age verification triples my transportation costs.
The advertised the first big sale and the premiums, but haven't seen anything else for follow up sales.

The tags were applied at the feedlot. The steers we sold in potloads were $5 a cwt higher for the certified calves then the non-certified calves.
Our marketing association will be going with the state ponsored QSA program for next years calves, that way we'renot bound to a snigle feedlot and we'll know better when the fall calves sell if it will pay off in the longrun. As I stated at the annual meeting, if there's a premium for doing it today there wiil be a dock for not doing it in the future.

I had expected a hornets nest when I brought this up on here.

dun

 

[frenchie]

.

I had expected a hornets nest when I brought this up on here.

dun

Dun its early yet....wait till Ot amd cmjust0 wake up :lol:

 

[dun]

.

I had expected a hornets nest when I brought this up on here.

dun

Dun its early yet....wait till Ot amd cmjust0 wake up :lol:

I'm curious how our northern neighbors feel about it since they've had it for a while now

dun

 

[frenchie]

.

I had expected a hornets nest when I brought this up on here.

dun

Dun its early yet....wait till Ot amd cmjust0 wake up :lol:

I'm curious how our northern neighbors feel about it since they've had it for a while now

dun

My feelings ..are similar to yours.

If we want to play in the world commercial market for beef, it's gotta get done

 

[Howdyjabo]

I think something needs to be done.
And I think that those that do it should get paid a premium. I'm not flaming just voiceing concerns that I have for supporting a MANDATED individual tag system.

..... when we get down to requireing that its done


how feasable is it for the BIG opperations to correctly tag each calf to its cow?
how feasable is it for the little part time guy to correctly tag each calf to its cow?
How feasable is it that cows are going to keep the tag long term?

Doing it just to do it is not enough -- it actually has to work.

I can see premisis ID working well-- Individual ID ??????

Its not a big deal to me personally-- I have been keeping tracking records for years.. But I can see where some of my neighbors(cow.calf) would have problems matching tag numbers without a huge overhaul in management . And the tags loss issue would require tattooing or ear knotching to keep it meaningful. The premium wouldn't even come close to covering the extra time,money and energy .

USDA is mandated to provide for a reliable ,safe , cheap and plentiful food supply.
Seems to me-when this becomes a requirement-- that they should be paying the costs for a reliable tracking system- right down to paying the owners for their extra time.

Those cattlemen(like me) that tracking isn't that much to add into their management--- shouldn't push a bandwagon that their brothers would find complying to--- a real drain on already scarce resources..

 

[dun]

I think something needs to be done.
And I think that those that do it should get paid a premium. I'm not flaming just voiceing concerns that I have for supporting a MANDATED individual tag system.

..... when we get down to requireing that its done


how feasable is it for the BIG opperations to correctly tag each calf to its cow?
how feasable is it for the little part time guy to correctly tag each calf to its cow?
How feasable is it that cows are going to keep the tag long term?

Doing it just to do it is not enough -- it actually has to work.

I can see premisis ID working well-- Individual ID ??????

Its not a big deal to me personally-- I have been keeping tracking records for years.. But I can see where some of my neighbors(cow.calf) would have problems matching tag numbers without a huge overhaul in management . And the tags loss issue would require tattooing or ear knotching to keep it meaningful. The premium wouldn't even come close to covering the extra time,money and energy .

USDA is mandated to provide for a reliable ,safe , cheap and plentiful food supply.
Seems to me-when this becomes a requirement-- that they should be paying the costs for a reliable tracking system- right down to paying the owners for their extra time.

Those cattlemen(like me) that tracking isn't that much to add into their management--- shouldn't push a bandwagon that their brothers would find complying to--- a real drain on already scarce resources..

You need to look into a little deeper. Unless you're cow herd is moved from place to place you don;t have to have them tagged. For those that are raising cattle on one place and j\ship calves to market or cows to market that's when they have to be tagged.
Mo has a deal that you can group identify birthdate. Not all that hard. Break your calving season into 60 days increments, anything born in one increment is classified as being born the first day. See what your own state has plans to do. Don;t just listen to the naysayers and chicken little types.

dun

 

[Howdyjabo]

On I wasn't talking about the NAIDS mandating-- its the processors that are going to be the one mandating. And they ARE going for individual ID.
NAIDS is just going to be the platform they leap from.

 

[dun]

On I wasn't talking about the NAIDS mandating-- its the processors that are going to be the one mandating. And they ARE going for individual ID.
NAIDS is just going to be the platform they leap from.

They will be individually IDed but it isn't, other then a couple of bucks for the tag and some record keeping, that big of a deal. My opinion. Another step or two in the process, but it seems to me that it's a worth while step. But we already invidually tag all the calves anyway. When we ran canyon cows we would tag the calves as we unloaded them from bringing them out of the mountains. We kept an eye on what calf nursed what cow, made it easy to cross reference them. But those were under the conditions that we worked with. Each producer has to figure out what works for them.
Since they still haven't been ablt to trace the SG cow back any further then the sale barn it seems that it should be a wakeup call.

dun

 

[Howdyjabo]

Thats my point Dunn-- Its easy for you and lots of others
But is it easy for everyone?

Once this ball gets rolling and alot of people are IDing specific animals
They will use that to pressure everyone into doing it.

Got to remember I have grow up with the start of integrated poultry in my backyard-- It hasn't been good for the growers in the past and its getting worse.
We now have McDonalds and Wendys telling the compainies how they are going to grow the chickens or they aren't buying.
Believe it or not one of their conditions is that the houses and landscaping are "asthetically pleasing" .
So we have to pretty up our houses and landscaping at our cost and it doesn't make us a single extra dime.

No I don't trust anymore
Supporting or doing anything past premisis ID is scarey.

 

[cmjust0]

Since frenchie took the liberty of mentioning my name in this thread -- totally out of context -- I might as well throw in my $.02.

If we want to play in the world commercial market for beef, it's gotta get done. Simple as that.

...

So for those that are playing ostrich or Don Quixote and tilting at windmills, get you head out of your hole and get on board.

I'm not tilting at windmills here -- NAIS is a real threat to freedom. It's real enough that several state legislatures are passing resolutions to let their opposition be known..

Missouri is one of those states, in fact..

I've said all this before, but it bears repeating here for the sake of clarification... If NAIS was only mandatory for animals destined for the 'open market,' I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it... If NAIS was market driven, I would have no problem with it at all...

Also, it's important to remember that M-ID and NAIS doesn't stop with cattle. As this forum revolves around the cattle business, it's easy to see why so many have chosen to see only the proposed benefits of NAIS, and have turned a blind eye to its numerous negative attributes.. I haven't. I couldn't, and keep a clean conscience.

I still worry about fellow Americans whose lives will be negatively impacted by NAIS and M-ID. What I don't want to see is the old lady up the road become a criminal for possessing half a dozen laying hens without government permission.. I don't want to see a family contend with registering a 2 acre 'premises,' buying an RFID tag, and completing mounds of government paperwork just so their 10 year old daughter can raise a lamb for 4H... I'd like to think that some stay at home mom could make a few extra bucks off soap and lotion without APHIS on her back about an illegal dairy goat..

These are the circumstances which make M-ID absolutely un-American. NAIS could be successful without M-ID, if the market makes it a priority.

What I'm really striving for is to keep government intrustion to a minimum, let the markets do their thing, and to let the American people retain as many rights and freedoms as we possibly can..

That's all.

 

[dj]

Seems like I read in an old book, you won't be able to trade without the mark.

 

[TXBobcat]

Seems like I read in an old book, you won't be able to trade without the mark.

I believe I've read that same book. ;-)

As far as NAIS goes, I'm still on the fence about this one. I believe we need to do something to regain and build faith in our foreign markets, but I don't believe NAIS, as it is proposed, is the perfect solution. Right now, I think NAIS would be a lot of effort on the part of the producer, with little gain.

In my opinion, more extensive testing is a better answer. I am not sure of the exact percetage of slaughter animals that are tested for BSE, etc., but how much more time and money would be needed to accomplish 100% testing? Does anyone know the cost of testing an animal for BSE, etc? If every animal were tested before it entered our food chain, then how could any diseased animal ever enter the food chain?

 

[dj]

I believe I've read that same book. ;-)

As far as NAIS goes, I'm still on the fence about this one. I believe we need to do something to regain and build faith in our foreign markets, but I don't believe NAIS, as it is proposed, is the perfect solution. Right now, I think NAIS would be a lot of effort on the part of the producer, with little gain.

In my opinion, more extensive testing is a better answer. I am not sure of the exact percetage of slaughter animals that are tested for BSE, etc., but how much more time and money would be needed to accomplish 100% testing? Does anyone know the cost of testing an animal for BSE, etc? If every animal were tested before it entered our food chain, then how could any diseased animal ever enter the food chain?

You can read alot about it in the
NCBA, R-CALF, COOL, USDA (No Politics!) board.
The Creekstone posts might answer some of your questions.

 

[TXBobcat]

Thanks for pointing out those posts. I read thru quite a few of them and from what I gather, many people are in support of 100% testing - which should satisfy any market (customer). At a cost of $16-$20 a head, I feel it is worth it.

If there is nothing to hide, then why not do it :?: