My ignorance

[lavacarancher]

Lets talk about current events for just a second. Maybe some of you have the answer to my dilemma.

Immigration reform is the subject of a lot of discussion this week. Heard one employer from Ca. talking about the new proposal giving them new tools with which to better screen new employee candidates. He said he didn't have effective tools to determine if the new hire was legal or not.??????? I don't understand.

Here are a couple of scenario's.
- A possibly illegal apply's for a job. The employer asks for a social security number. If the applicant can't supply a SSN, interview over!
- If applicant CAN supply a SSN he is hired (for starvation wages) and the employer is off the hook.
- Applicant supplies a fake SSN and the employer hires him/her and takes SS out of his/her salary. (starts to get a little fuzzy from here on in and so far, the employer has had all the tools he needs to determine legitimacy)

So, if SS is collected from the employee who supplied a fake SSN where does the money go? Does the employer keep the money and not send it to the government (sorry bastard)? Does the employer send the money to the government? If yes, where does the money go? If yes, the SSA can't determine if the money they collected was from an illegal? If yes, does this information NOT get reported back the employer (goes to "not having tools").

Something is rotten in Ohio (sorry, Denmark). To me, it would seem employers have all the tools they need in order to determine if a person is legal or not.

 

[TexasBred]

Withheld SS monies have to be remitted with their quarterly employment report. Employers can and do go to prison for this very failure to remit. Where the money goes from there is anyone's guess. A huge number of SS #'s given to employers are fake but the guy who gives it to you could care less....he wants a job...and they no longer work for starvation wages especially when compared to their prior wages in Mexico.

 

[dun]

That's waht E-verify that the ruling party is fighting is supposed to take care of,
From the E-Verify site:
E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.


http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/ ... 18190aRCRD

 

[backhoeboogie]

Withheld SS monies have to be remitted with their quarterly employment report. Employers can and do go to prison for this very failure to remit. Where the money goes from there is anyone's guess. A huge number of SS #'s given to employers are fake but the guy who gives it to you could care less....he wants a job...and they no longer work for starvation wages especially when compared to their prior wages in Mexico.

Stolen identifity is awful. You find out you earned money and have to pay taxes for an out of state job you never had.

 

[James T]

That's waht E-verify that the ruling party is fighting is supposed to take care of,
From the E-Verify site:
E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.


http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/ ... 18190aRCRD

Your right Dun, it's easy. But getting qualified to use the system is a real pain in the a$$. Having a vendor run the SS card is simple, fast and very inexpensive. Most employers combine the SS verification with the background check. E-Verify can also help to establish the validity of the documentation used to complete the I-9 form. Even with these easier tools, some employers want to get the workers in the field faster so they just accept whatever the applicant hands them. I believe it will become more regulated in the next couple of years - E-Verify will become mandatory in all states.

 

[dun]

I believe it will become more regulated in the next couple of years - E-Verify will become mandatory in all states.

I don;t think it will go into affect for years. It will be appealed to a bunch of lower courts and end up at the supreme court. Kind of like what is happening with the valid picture id to vote

 

[lavacarancher]

That's waht E-verify that the ruling party is fighting is supposed to take care of,
From the E-Verify site:
E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.


http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/ ... 18190aRCRD

Yes, you are correct about the E-Verify system. Point is that there are hooks already in place to identify illegals based on SSN. No SSN or incorrect SSN and the chance are that you are not legal. The fellow I heard on the radio stated he had no tools with which to identify an illegal. BULL!

And the point I was trying to make about the money collected from both employees and employers goes where? How is it reported? Is this a chance for even more government corruption or what ever you want to call it.

 

[cow pollinater]

They learn how to get jobs before they ever get here so not having a SS number doesn't happen very often.
The SS office will actually contact employers here and tell them that so and so's name an SS number don't match. That employee gets two??? trys to give a valid social that matches whatever name he gave and if he can't then it's mandatory termination(at which point they just go get another job).
On new hires the employer has to sign a waiver stating that he has never met the employee before by any name. That keeps them from hiring the same guys back under a diferent name.
Employers here are very limited by what they can ask. If someone can hand them documentation that looks real, they're hired. You can't PROVE that they're NOT legal so you have to assume that they are.
And yes, they do get everything witheld from their checks that any citizen does BUT, they don't get any tax refund, SS, etc... They pay in to keep from getting caught and take no direct benefit in return.

 

[TexasBred]

That's waht E-verify that the ruling party is fighting is supposed to take care of,
From the E-Verify site:
E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.


http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/ ... 18190aRCRD

Yes, you are correct about the E-Verify system. Point is that there are hooks already in place to identify illegals based on SSN. No SSN or incorrect SSN and the chance are that you are not legal. The fellow I heard on the radio stated he had no tools with which to identify an illegal. BULL!

And the point I was trying to make about the money collected from both employees and employers goes where? How is it reported? Is this a chance for even more government corruption or what ever you want to call it.

The funds are sent to IRS with Form 941 so yes there is plenty of room for corruption. As I said, once it's sent to them who knows where it goes. Bet they certainly don't know. I've been told it goes into the FICA fund but can't confirm it.

 

[Jogeephus]

I use a federally suplied form to verify whether or not I can hire people. There are 5 types of information which is required but for simplisity I'll mention the two most common forms of ID that is required which is the social security card and a driver's license. If they show me this then I CANNOT NOT HIRE them even if I know they are illegal or I will be in violation of the discrimination laws. After a year of employment - usually 18 months - I am informed by the IRS that their name does not match their social security number. In that event, they correct the problem by going to Little Mexico and getting a new Social Security card and with it I am again - NOT ALLOWED TO NOT HIRE THEM. Where does the collected tax money go? It goes into the social security pot and the general fund.

Now, if you hire an illegal as a contract labor and 1099 them - the IRS does not like this and they will again inform you that the information doesn't match and they ask you to fill out a lot of paperwork and collect the back taxes from the contractor and send to the IRS.

I don't like the idea of illegals draining our resources so I went to the federal government's migrant worker assistance office and spoke with them about hiring legitimate workers. Sounds reasonable that the federal government would only be giving assistance to legals right? Apparantly this is not the case because out of all the workers they sent me NOT ONE was legal.

So what do you do? There are plenty americans that are capable of working but why should they when we give them everything they need. JMO

 

[lavacarancher]

I use a federally suplied form to verify whether or not I can hire people. There are 5 types of information which is required but for simplisity I'll mention the two most common forms of ID that is required which is the social security card and a driver's license. If they show me this then I CANNOT NOT HIRE them even if I know they are illegal or I will be in violation of the discrimination laws. After a year of employment - usually 18 months - I am informed by the IRS that their name does not match their social security number. In that event, they correct the problem by going to Little Mexico and getting a new Social Security card and with it I am again - NOT ALLOWED TO NOT HIRE THEM. Where does the collected tax money go? It goes into the social security pot and the general fund.

Now, if you hire an illegal as a contract labor and 1099 them - the IRS does not like this and they will again inform you that the information doesn't match and they ask you to fill out a lot of paperwork and collect the back taxes from the contractor and send to the IRS.

I don't like the idea of illegals draining our resources so I went to the federal government's migrant worker assistance office and spoke with them about hiring legitimate workers. Sounds reasonable that the federal government would only be giving assistance to legals right? Apparantly this is not the case because out of all the workers they sent me NOT ONE was legal.

So what do you do? There are plenty americans that are capable of working but why should they when we give them everything they need. JMO

Thanks, Jogee. Your explanation sounds plausible but I disagree on one point - you say they are draining our resources. They do pay into the system but get no legal benefit, or at least that's what some folks would have us believe.

Politicians are all a bunch of hypocritical crooks and liars as far as I'm concerned. We need to add one more word to the list of "bad" words - politician. It just seems that the government is the biggest contributor to the problem of illegals.

You are spot on in your statement about the freeloaders in this country. We need these "illegals" because without them things would come to a stop. Now where did I leave my free phone?????

 

[mwj]

I use a federally suplied form to verify whether or not I can hire people. There are 5 types of information which is required but for simplisity I'll mention the two most common forms of ID that is required which is the social security card and a driver's license. If they show me this then I CANNOT NOT HIRE them even if I know they are illegal or I will be in violation of the discrimination laws. After a year of employment - usually 18 months - I am informed by the IRS that their name does not match their social security number. In that event, they correct the problem by going to Little Mexico and getting a new Social Security card and with it I am again - NOT ALLOWED TO NOT HIRE THEM. Where does the collected tax money go? It goes into the social security pot and the general fund.

Now, if you hire an illegal as a contract labor and 1099 them - the IRS does not like this and they will again inform you that the information doesn't match and they ask you to fill out a lot of paperwork and collect the back taxes from the contractor and send to the IRS.

I don't like the idea of illegals draining our resources so I went to the federal government's migrant worker assistance office and spoke with them about hiring legitimate workers. Sounds reasonable that the federal government would only be giving assistance to legals right? Apparantly this is not the case because out of all the workers they sent me NOT ONE was legal.

So what do you do? There are plenty americans that are capable of working but why should they when we give them everything they need. JMO

Thanks, Jogee. Your explanation sounds plausible but I disagree on one point - you say they are draining our resources. They do pay into the system but get no legal benefit, or at least that's what some folks would have us believe.

Politicians are all a bunch of hypocritical crooks and liars as far as I'm concerned. We need to add one more word to the list of "bad" words - politician. It just seems that the government is the biggest contributor to the problem of illegals.

You are spot on in your statement about the freeloaders in this country. We need these "illegals" because without them things would come to a stop. Now where did I leave my free phone?????

The only ones paying into the system are the ones with a ''regular'' above board job. There are a huge amount that work as casual or day labor that never show on the radar. The other part of the story is that not all of the illegals are working and male.

 

[Jogeephus]

Thanks, Jogee. Your explanation sounds plausible but I disagree on one point - you say they are draining our resources. They do pay into the system but get no legal benefit, or at least that's what some folks would have us believe.

I'm referring mostly to the hospitals since they tend to use the emergency room for all their health care needs and then they stick them with the bill leaving us to have to make up the difference. Hospital cannot refuse care and they know this and take full advantage of it. In fairness, they are not the only ones that drain this resource.

Don't get me wrong. I admire them and their work ethic and their family values. I have found them to be - for the most part - very good people. I even cosigned on a bank note for one of them and he paid every cent back before it was due which is a lot more than I can say for the preacher I loaned money to to repair the hurricane damage to his house. I eventually got it back but it took a meeting with the elders in the church to make it happen.

The thing a lot of people don't understand is there are two types of migrants. There are those who are here to work with no intention of staying here and then there are those who come here to stay. The latter is where the problem lays.