Ky hills
Well-known member
To start I want to make clear that in spite of my critical comments about them, I do not hate Angus. Actually I used to say in regards to Angus, that they did more things right as a breed on average than any other breed.
There are several registered Angus breeders on this board with outstanding herds.
@gizmom has a fine quality breeding program.
The same for @jscunn and @wbvs58
Their pictures and videos of their cattle, depict the type and kind of cattle that I like. No doubt those cattle work for them.
Throughout my early life, Angus have always been regarded as healthy good doing, easy calving cattle. When I was young they fell out of favor because a lot were too small to be competitive with the newer at the time continental cattle.
I started out in the cow calf business with registered Charolais. I bought a few heifers from a longtime breeder, and overtime more from a few other established breeders. The movers and shakers in the breed were big into the show ring and we're breeding cattle for that. The sales promoters were all about the big names and prefixes. AI and ET were taking off at that time too. I was told by the promoters to get name recognized cattle. I did start moving that way, which was the biggest mistake I ever made. Before long all the breeds had went towards the big 6 ft tall slab sided, narrow, phenotype, and finally it hit the fan when it wasn't working in the field or on the rail. Angus were in a great position then, because there were enough breeders that hadn't chased that fad. Seemed like over night demand for Charolais and others dried up. I eventually bought an Angus bull and ended my registered run.
I used Angus bulls almost exclusively over the next 20-25 years. During that time for a while I raised dairy calves and just had a handful of cows. Sold most of the calves off those cows. Then got into selling bred heifers, and still just a few cows. Had to use calving ease Angus bulls with the heifers. Had a very high turnover rate at that point with the bulls, higher than I ever had with Charolais. I bought bulls from several sources and first one thing then another would happen. These were mostly AI sired and some ET bulls. They were all well bred if you go by the current popular lines at the time.
During that time I tried to start up a small registered Angus cowherd too. I bought mainly heifers ready to breed. Fertility was an early disappointment. Not all got bred on time and the ones that calved when supposed to, didn't all rebreed on time. Not desirable from a purebred or commercial standpoint. Nutrition shouldn't have been an issue, as the commercial and crossbred cows I had at the time were doing their thing much better.
Though the fact that there was quite a bit of calving ease and curve bender pedigrees could account for the weaning weights, they were still pretty low considering the mature size and milking ability of the cows.
Talked with some other registered breeders who were also frustrated with the direction of the breed.
One said that feet, fertility, and disposition were all serious problems that needed to be addressed.
Another breeder had bought some high dollar females from a big name and was having trouble getting them bred.
Once went to a large registered outfit to buy a bull. Bulls were priced from $3500-$7000, most were AI sired and all pedigrees were heavily influenced by AI on both sides. Several of the bulls did not even look like an Angus.
I've always heard that certain traits are antagonistic. If that is true then selective breeding for certain traits is bound to have an affect somewhere down the line.
The present day breeding programs which are more accurately described as multipliers, all jump on the AI bandwagon of the latest and greatest EPD wonder bull of the month. I honestly think this reliance on someone else from a very different region to supply your breeding bulls (AI), and the use of EPD's as a sole or major influence on selection has done an immeasurable amount of damage not just to Angus but to all breeds that have followed that model.
There are situations where AI is beneficial. Some EPDs like CED and BW can be somewhat reliable, I feel most of the others have too much room for variation from one outfit to the next to be real reliable.
I'm a firm believer that animals raised in a similar environment will perform better than bringing in a hodgepodge of genetics from vastly different areas.
Just some of my experiences and thoughts.
There are several registered Angus breeders on this board with outstanding herds.
@gizmom has a fine quality breeding program.
The same for @jscunn and @wbvs58
Their pictures and videos of their cattle, depict the type and kind of cattle that I like. No doubt those cattle work for them.
Throughout my early life, Angus have always been regarded as healthy good doing, easy calving cattle. When I was young they fell out of favor because a lot were too small to be competitive with the newer at the time continental cattle.
I started out in the cow calf business with registered Charolais. I bought a few heifers from a longtime breeder, and overtime more from a few other established breeders. The movers and shakers in the breed were big into the show ring and we're breeding cattle for that. The sales promoters were all about the big names and prefixes. AI and ET were taking off at that time too. I was told by the promoters to get name recognized cattle. I did start moving that way, which was the biggest mistake I ever made. Before long all the breeds had went towards the big 6 ft tall slab sided, narrow, phenotype, and finally it hit the fan when it wasn't working in the field or on the rail. Angus were in a great position then, because there were enough breeders that hadn't chased that fad. Seemed like over night demand for Charolais and others dried up. I eventually bought an Angus bull and ended my registered run.
I used Angus bulls almost exclusively over the next 20-25 years. During that time for a while I raised dairy calves and just had a handful of cows. Sold most of the calves off those cows. Then got into selling bred heifers, and still just a few cows. Had to use calving ease Angus bulls with the heifers. Had a very high turnover rate at that point with the bulls, higher than I ever had with Charolais. I bought bulls from several sources and first one thing then another would happen. These were mostly AI sired and some ET bulls. They were all well bred if you go by the current popular lines at the time.
During that time I tried to start up a small registered Angus cowherd too. I bought mainly heifers ready to breed. Fertility was an early disappointment. Not all got bred on time and the ones that calved when supposed to, didn't all rebreed on time. Not desirable from a purebred or commercial standpoint. Nutrition shouldn't have been an issue, as the commercial and crossbred cows I had at the time were doing their thing much better.
Though the fact that there was quite a bit of calving ease and curve bender pedigrees could account for the weaning weights, they were still pretty low considering the mature size and milking ability of the cows.
Talked with some other registered breeders who were also frustrated with the direction of the breed.
One said that feet, fertility, and disposition were all serious problems that needed to be addressed.
Another breeder had bought some high dollar females from a big name and was having trouble getting them bred.
Once went to a large registered outfit to buy a bull. Bulls were priced from $3500-$7000, most were AI sired and all pedigrees were heavily influenced by AI on both sides. Several of the bulls did not even look like an Angus.
I've always heard that certain traits are antagonistic. If that is true then selective breeding for certain traits is bound to have an affect somewhere down the line.
The present day breeding programs which are more accurately described as multipliers, all jump on the AI bandwagon of the latest and greatest EPD wonder bull of the month. I honestly think this reliance on someone else from a very different region to supply your breeding bulls (AI), and the use of EPD's as a sole or major influence on selection has done an immeasurable amount of damage not just to Angus but to all breeds that have followed that model.
There are situations where AI is beneficial. Some EPDs like CED and BW can be somewhat reliable, I feel most of the others have too much room for variation from one outfit to the next to be real reliable.
I'm a firm believer that animals raised in a similar environment will perform better than bringing in a hodgepodge of genetics from vastly different areas.
Just some of my experiences and thoughts.