Multiple Breed Bulls in One Pasture

[dn91]

A guy told me once that when different breeds of bulls are together in a pasture breeding cows that certain breeds are more dominant or some are more recessive when it comes to getting cows bred. I want to run 6 bulls, 2 char, 2 herf, and 2 possibly Simmental with cows but was wondering if anyone else has experienced anything of this nature.

His example was if you put charolais bulls and angus bulls together that you will get way more angus sired calves compared to charolais sired calves, Thoughts?

 

[Dave]

It has pretty much nothing to do with the breed but everything to do with the individual. Some bulls will be very active in working the cows. Others will lay up in the shade. One thing with that mix you should be able to tell who is doing the breeding. On the other hand you wont have a very uniform group of calves and my experience is that uniform groups of calves sell better.

 

[u4411clb]

I have heard stories similar to what your friend told you. I don't know if they are old wives tales or not. Never saw any actual facts on it but I have heard that the libido of an Angus bull is greater than most bulls and therefore they will end up breeding more. I have also heard that nothing beats the libido of a Jersey bull and you don't want one of those anywhere around a cow that they will breed a cow through a barbed wire fence with two strand of electric wire across the top. But I am not sure if libido is based on breeds or just the individual animal. Often times when it gets down to the end and not many ladies left the physically dominant bull seems to have his way. But every now and then a brave young bull will surprise you and end up to quick for the older bull.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Would those of you with experience in this situation say it's better to have an odd number of bulls vs even? Especially when talking about 2 vs 3?

We accidentally allowed a 2 year old Angus bull in with our older (7ish) bull and man what a knock down drag out that was. I finally got them separated and got the young one out and back to where he belonged but for about 10 minutes I thought the older, bigger bull was going to pound him into the ground.

A few weeks later we allowed a younger smaller Hereford bull to mingle with the older guy's herd and there were no incidents. I found that interesting.

We have shipped the old dude at this point and I kinda miss him.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Libido is directly related to hormone function. If one selects for proper hormone function, it'll help your overall herd fertility.

It'd be my bet that the guy who told you that the Angus would outbreed the Charolais simply based on his opinion of the two breeds probably owns black cows and may sell black bulls.

If those are the three breeds that will give you what you're looking for, run all six and DNA test your calves so you'll know which bulls tagged which cows ... so, then, you'll know which bull(s) to keep for next year (i.e., the lotharios).

 

[highgrit]

Wrong answer Walnut. I am not Angus only, matter of fact Hereford is what we are using now. But Angus bulls are very aggressive breeders by nature. They mature very early and will jump or tear down fences to get to a cow in heat. And will beat the crap out of most if not all of the other breeds. And thats No bull just fact.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Highgrit ...

I didn't intend to give the impression that Angus were sub-fertile or passive breeders. While some are (as is the case in ALL breeds), many are excellent specimens and are productive cattle for their environment.

What I did try to say is this -- fertility for bulls and cows is related to hormone function ... hormone function varies from animal to animal ... so the best breeders (i.e., those who are most fertile) will have the best hormone function. As a result of my views on this, I make decisions on which bull is better only after knowing how many calves he put on the ground in a multi-sire situation ... AND ... saw how his daughters worked out ... both of which only happen after he's passed my tests for forage conversion efficiency.

I find it quite difficult to believe someone who seriously says that all Angus bulls are better breeders than all Charolais bulls ... which is what it sounded like what the OP put forward ("...if you put charolais bulls and angus bulls together that you will get way more angus sired calves compared to charolais sired calves..."). If someone says that is true in all cases, I will tell you that probably that person making the statement either has a vested interest in that answer or isn't thinking things through very well. In both cases --- caveat emptor.

Since I'm not a Charolais guy, if you want to continue this line of discussion, I'm sure one of them could pick up this issue far better than I.

To the OP ... good luck to you.

 

[cow pollinater]

It will also vary by terrain. Any bull can cover cows in flat country where they don't have to travel very far but if you get them up in the rocks hanging off the side of the mountain it really favors the more athletic bulls.
I had two yearling Angus bulls outbreed two three year old horned Herefords last year. I only turned them out to let them grow up a little and instead they bred half the herd. Pretty much any cow that got out and worked the rough part of that pasture had a black calf this fall.

 

[Beef Man]

We do sell some horned hereford bulls to a few commercial customers for the reason that they will keep the other bulls traveling and do not take very long in settling some of the scrapping that causes problems. I ,as ,a hereford breeder will not positively claim that all herefords are better breeders than brand x because that would be a stupid statement,but if anyone looks at the research done through the last few years it will show that horned bulls will out travel and out breed a lot of the other sires. I truly wonder why anyone would use 3 different breeds of bulls in the same cowherd?? We actually have buyers that try to buy bulls as closely related as possible, seeking more uniforminty in their calf crop. We certanly do on our red cross's aiming to bunch them steers so when they hit the feedlot and eventually the packers they are ,hopefully one like another. Also have a waiting list for the heifer mate's as the more alike the cows are the easyier it is for the next owner to manage them.

 

[dun]

Neighbor runs 3 bulls with his cows, 2 angus and 1 Polled Hereford. Most years he gets more white faced calves then solids. His fall calving this year was the other way around.

 

[Stocker Steve]

If you need to run multiple bulls in a small pasture I would try to take avoid some of the conflict by having different size bulls of the same breed.

 

[rRandel]

first off i dont care what breed you use, i think it has to do with individuals. My expreinces this last year are one 50 acre pasture mostly open with 24 3rd to 5th calfer pairs. First off turning a yearling red sim bull out the idea was to turn the yearling out for 30 days then pull him and put another 6 yr bull in but this young guy even wore me out he herded them, sorted them, was constantly moving them around in 2 seperate groups i told my dad that i could tell which ones he breed by him staying with the group he that started out bigger and got smaller and smaller by the end of 35 days he was laying under a shade tree away from the cows i told my dad theres no need to bring that other bull over to this pasture this guy has got it done! so finally after convicing my dad we ultra sounded this group another 40 days later which is earlier that we ussually do and ill be that yearly had every one of those cows bred in that first 35 days.

same year different pasture 150 acres about half timber 19 first calf heifers pairs and 6 older pairs turned out one yearling red angus bull then 35 days later turned out a 5 yr black angus bull for anther 35 days. After untra sounding them 8 are for sure the red angus bulls and a few right on the line so this spring we may find out more but lots of stuff can make the difference maybe its the cows? maybe its the pasture? hard to say for sure the funny thing is now that the bulls are up in the lot the red angus bull wipps all of the others incuding the 5 and 6 yr bulls. One of those things... might have got a little off subject but i had to share

 

[3waycross]

first off i dont care what breed you use, i think it has to do with individuals. My expreinces this last year are one 50 acre pasture mostly open with 24 3rd to 5th calfer pairs. First off turning a yearling red sim bull out the idea was to turn the yearling out for 30 days then pull him and put another 6 yr bull in but this young guy even wore me out he herded them, sorted them, was constantly moving them around in 2 seperate groups i told my dad that i could tell which ones he breed by him staying with the group he that started out bigger and got smaller and smaller by the end of 35 days he was laying under a shade tree away from the cows i told my dad theres no need to bring that other bull over to this pasture this guy has got it done! so finally after convicing my dad we ultra sounded this group another 40 days later which is earlier that we ussually do and ill be that yearly had every one of those cows bred in that first 35 days.
good bull

same year different pasture 150 acres about half timber 19 first calf heifers pairs and 6 older pairs turned out one yearling red angus bull then 35 days later turned out a 5 yr black angus bull for anther 35 days. After untra sounding them 8 are for sure the red angus bulls and a few right on the line so this spring we may find out more but lots of stuff can make the difference maybe its the cows? maybe its the pasture? hard to say for sure the funny thing is now that the bulls are up in the lot the red angus bull wipps all of the others incuding the 5 and 6 yr bulls. One of those things... might have got a little off subject but i had to share

apparently he would rather fight than-------

 

[dn91]

We feed out all of our calves so while uniformity is somewhat important we wont take a hit at weaning time. I feel it is a good way in experimenting in which breed will work best on my set of cows in the feedlot and going back into the herd.