More peace from the peaceful.

greybeard":3z3eb72p said:
Margonme":3z3eb72p said:
Grit stated:
Ron I don't buy any of that non sense, Islam has been around since the 7th century and they've been killing, raping and pillaging us ever since.

Same thing can be said of Christians. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Our forefathers considered any intervention into our nation's politics, elections, domestic affairs, or commerce as an act of treason, yet that is exactly what the US did in Iran, Iraq, Kuwait and other middle eastern countries.

This is retaliation.  Not the religious war you and so many want to make it out to be. Its about people regardless of what faith they follow. Every leader in the middle east since WWII has been a puppet of the US.  The Soviet Union and the US played games in the middle east during the Cold War Period.

The only way to retaliate against a world power is terrorism and guerrilla warfare.  They sure as heII are not going to put on red coats and march at us in a line like the British did during the revolutionary war.

The US intruded into the politics and culture of the middle east for a 100 years, now the calf has grown horns.

I disagree with this in principle.


Principle rarely provides a reliable source of oil.

The US and Great Britain saw what the paucity of a reliable source of oil did to Germany during WWII.   German tanks were idled in the deserts of North Africa because they ran out of petroleum.

After WWII, the US employed its diplomacy skills to exploit the middle east and assure that the US had reliable access to the extensive reserves of middle east oil.  That went well until two events that you (GB) and I lived through. The following two events were turning points in middle east foreign policy:

1.  The Iran Hostage Crisis.

The crisis was described by the Western media as an “entanglement” of “vengeance and mutual incomprehension.” PresidentJimmy Carter called the hostages “victims of terrorism and anarchy” and said, “The United States will not yield to blackmail.” In Iran, it was widely seen as a blow against the United States and its influence in Iran, including its perceived attempts to undermine the Iranian Revolution and its longstanding support of the recently overthrown Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, who had led an autocratic regime.

2.  The Iran Contra Affair.

The Iran–Contra affair, also referred to as Irangate, Contragate or the Iran–Contra scandal, was a political scandal in the United States that occurred during the second term of the Reagan Administration. Senior administration officials secretly facilitated the sale of arms to Iran, which was the subject of an arms embargo. They hoped thereby to secure the release of several U.S. hostages and to fund the Contras in Nicaragua. Under the Boland Amendment, further funding of the Contras by the government had been prohibited by Congress.


Folks can dress this hog anyway they want but it has more to do with failed foreign policy centered around securing a reliable oil supply for the US than with Islam.

The source of all that hate directed at the US may come walking on the sandals of Islam but the roots are 80 years of exploiting oil rich nations of the middle east.
 
True Grit Farms":nkn3nq3o said:
The world was having problems with the peaceful way before we needed or wanted their oil.

Who is the World?

Do you mean Christians? The middle east is a geographic area that happens to have a lot of oil and a lot of Muslims. My point is US foreign policy in the middle east since WWII contributed to the tensions between that region and the US.

I am not dictating to anyone who is right or wrong. Right and wrong ain't going to change a damm thing.
 
Margonme":2fez4hdo said:
Grit, acts of terrorism are disgusting. I condemn them with conviction.

However, you should review the history of US intrusion in the middle east. Early in our history as a nation, the US was viewed by the Islamic people of the middle east as saints compared to our British brothers who stole their resources like a thief in the night. As time passed, the US became as selfish and thieving as our British brothers. Here is a quote of President Franklin D. Roosevelt to a British Ambassador in 1944:

Persian oil … is yours. We share the oil of Iraq and Kuwait. As for Saudi Arabian oil, it's ours.

That brief statement speaks volumes.

I condemn terrorism but even a man as wretchedly prejudice as you confess to be must acknowledge that we raped and pillaged the middle east for over a 100 years. Is it any wonder that they got a burr under their saddle?

Pay backs are heII, my friend. I don't like it either but I can at least acknowledge the pathways that got us here. You don't give me the impression you are capable of doing that.

if we stole it all the how did they get to be so rich?
and if the oil is free then why was gas $4.00 a gallon a few years ago until the dakota fields were opened?
 
15qvhb8.jpg


Grit, are you old enough or well read enough to know about this guy. He was one of our Puppets.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi (26 October 1919 – 27 July 1980) was the Shah of Iran from 16 September 1941 until his overthrow by the Iranian Revolution on 11 February 1979.  He took the title Shāhanshāh ("Emperor" or "King of Kings") on 26 October 1967. He was the second and last monarch of the House of Pahlavi of the Iranian monarchy. Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi held several other titles, including that of Āryāmehr (Light of the Aryans) and Bozorg Arteshtārān (Head of the Warriors).

Mohammad Reza Pahlavi came to power during World War II after an Anglo-Soviet invasion forced the abdication of his father,Reza Shah. During Mohammad Reza Shah's reign, the Iranian oil industry was brieflynationalized, under the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, until a US and UK-backed coup d'état deposed Mosaddegh and brought back foreign oil firms.
.
 
Christians and Muslims both certainty have blood on their hands. But to make excuses for the enemy during a time of war is pitiful behavior. The time has come to choose sides or shut the **** up. Hopefully someone in charge will turn
The entire Islamic ruled part of the world into a big smoking hole in the ground.
And be done with it. Then those who want to preach ancient history can knock themselves out.
 
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pdfangus":87dwvx06 said:
Margonme":87dwvx06 said:
Grit, acts of terrorism are disgusting. I condemn them with conviction.

However, you should review the history of US intrusion in the middle east. Early in our history as a nation, the US was viewed by the Islamic people of the middle east as saints compared to our British brothers who stole their resources like a thief in the night. As time passed, the US became as selfish and thieving as our British brothers. Here is a quote of President Franklin D. Roosevelt to a British Ambassador in 1944:

Persian oil … is yours. We share the oil of Iraq and Kuwait. As for Saudi Arabian oil, it's ours.

That brief statement speaks volumes.

I condemn terrorism but even a man as wretchedly prejudice as you confess to be must acknowledge that we raped and pillaged the middle east for over a 100 years. Is it any wonder that they got a burr under their saddle?

Pay backs are heII, my friend. I don't like it either but I can at least acknowledge the pathways that got us here. You don't give me the impression you are capable of doing that.

if we stole it all the how did they get to be so rich?
and if the oil is free then why was gas $4.00 a gallon a few years ago until the dakota fields were opened?

WHO SAID WE STOLE IT? No, it was not free. You are getting lost in the weeds. But we did exploit a sovereign nation in order to exert control of their government and people. HeII, wouldn't that make you hate?
 
Margonme":221zj9lv said:
True Grit Farms":221zj9lv said:
The world was having problems with the peaceful way before we needed or wanted their oil.

Who is the World?

Do you mean Christians? The middle east is a geographic area that happens to have a lot of oil and a lot of Muslims. My point is US foreign policy in the middle east since WWII contributed to the tensions between that region and the US.

I am not dictating to anyone who is right or wrong. Right and wrong ain't going to change a damm thing.

They have been hating us (non Believers....for those in doubt this means non muslims) for free for nearly a thousand years....
their religion of peace encourages them to make converts at the point of a sword.
in their eyes you are either a believer or an infidel
and death to the infidel.
The world is not all goodness and sunshine no matter how much some people want to believe it... :deadhorse:
 
Margonme":2ms79m2w said:
True Grit Farms":2ms79m2w said:
The world was having problems with the peaceful way before we needed or wanted their oil.

Who is the World?

Do you mean Christians? The middle east is a geographic area that happens to have a lot of oil and a lot of Muslims. My point is US foreign policy in the middle east since WWII contributed to the tensions between that region and the US.

I am not dictating to anyone who is right or wrong. Right and wrong ain't going to change a damm thing.

Your not doing a bad job assuming. I don't really give a hoot what they do over there, the problem I have is what they do over here.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/06/02/ ... n-schools/
I read this awhile back and did some fact checking. And what I found seemed plausible to me.
 
callmefence":1iey0v25 said:
Christians and Muslims both certainty have blood on their hands. But to make excuses for the enemy during a time of war is pitiful behavior. The time has come to choose sides or shut the be nice up. Hopefully someone in charge will turn
The entire Islamic ruled part of the world into a big smoking hole in the ground.
And be done with it. Then those who want to preach ancient history can knock themselves out.

Not about choosing sides my noble friend. It is about understanding history. Our leaders love it when citizens blame this on religion. Because they sure don't want us to realize it was bad government policy.
 
Margonme":222jmz55 said:
callmefence":222jmz55 said:
Christians and Muslims both certainty have blood on their hands. But to make excuses for the enemy during a time of war is pitiful behavior. The time has come to choose sides or shut the be nice up. Hopefully someone in charge will turn
The entire Islamic ruled part of the world into a big smoking hole in the ground.
And be done with it. Then those who want to preach ancient history can knock themselves out.

Not about choosing sides my noble friend. It is about understanding history. Our leaders love it when citizens blame this on religion. Because they sure don't want us to realize it was bad government policy.


Understood.
When the Japanese bombed pearl harbor. Americans came together and crushed enemies in a few years. They fought hard because they where at war.
At the point where we are now it does not matter the history or religion.
We are at war an the enemy is amongst us. Until we get aggressive at killing them overseas, stopping them from entering the country, and rooting out and executing the ones already here. These attacks will continue.
When the enemy is defeated we can look at policy .

If your house is on fire. Do you get your family out. Or go check if someone left a burner on
 
callmefence":3jfvzhm1 said:
Margonme":3jfvzhm1 said:
callmefence":3jfvzhm1 said:
Christians and Muslims both certainty have blood on their hands. But to make excuses for the enemy during a time of war is pitiful behavior. The time has come to choose sides or shut the be nice up. Hopefully someone in charge will turn
The entire Islamic ruled part of the world into a big smoking hole in the ground.
And be done with it. Then those who want to preach ancient history can knock themselves out.

Not about choosing sides my noble friend. It is about understanding history. Our leaders love it when citizens blame this on religion. Because they sure don't want us to realize it was bad government policy.


Understood.
When the Japanese bombed pearl harbor. Americans came together and crushed enemies in a few years. They fought hard because they where at war.
At the point where we are now it does not matter the history or religion.
We are at war an the enemy is amongst us. Until we get aggressive at killing them overseas, stopping them from entering the country, and rooting out and executing the ones already here. These attacks will continue.
When the enemy is defeated we can look at policy .

If your house is on fire. Do you get your family out. Or go check if someone left a burner out

I agree.
 
This trivia is for dun and some of you older hunters.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, hosted Jack O'Conner the famous shooting writer for Outdoor Life. Jack was a great sheep hunter and hunted sheep in Iran hosted by the Shah.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi has been rated as one of the most accomplished international hunters of all time. Of course, money was not an issue and he spent very little time with governance, so he had all the time in the world to hunt.
 
Margonme":2xsdk2c5 said:
This trivia is for dun and some of you older hunters.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, hosted Jack O'Conner the famous shooting writer for Outdoor Life. Jack was a great sheep hunter and hunted sheep in Iran hosted by the Shah.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi has been rated as one of the most accomplished international hunters of all time. Of course, money was not an issue and he spent very little time with governance, so he had all the time in the world to hunt.
Some old spanish international hunter when he was awarded I think it was the first Weatherby trophy said, " I don't hunt to kill, I kill to have hunted"
 
dun":1jl9yadv said:
Margonme":1jl9yadv said:
This trivia is for dun and some of you older hunters.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, hosted Jack O'Conner the famous shooting writer for Outdoor Life. Jack was a great sheep hunter and hunted sheep in Iran hosted by the Shah.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi has been rated as one of the most accomplished international hunters of all time. Of course, money was not an issue and he spent very little time with governance, so he had all the time in the world to hunt.
Some old spanish international hunter when he was awarded I think it was the first Weatherby trophy said, " I don't hunt to kill, I kill to have hunted"

The Shah's son, H.I.H. Prince Abdorreza Pahlavi, was awarded the Weatherby Hunter and Conservation Award in 1962.
 
Margonme":36wdkccf said:
Grit stated:
Ron I don't buy any of that non sense, Islam has been around since the 7th century and they've been killing, raping and pillaging us ever since.

Same thing can be said of Christians. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Our forefathers considered any intervention into our nation's politics, elections, domestic affairs, or commerce as an act of treason, yet that is exactly what the US did in Iran, Iraq, Kuwait and other middle eastern countries.

This is retaliation.  Not the religious war you and so many want to make it out to be. Its about people regardless of what faith they follow. Every leader in the middle east since WWII has been a puppet of the US.  The Soviet Union and the US played games in the middle east during the Cold War Period.

The only way to retaliate against a world power is terrorism and guerrilla warfare.  They sure as heII are not going to put on red coats and march at us in a line like the British did during the revolutionary war.

The US intruded into the politics and culture of the middle east for a 100 years, now the calf has grown horns.

I was taught many years ago that I shouldn't complain about how things are unless I offered a solution. So what's your solution? I personally never did anything to the Muslims nor for that matter the African Americans but yet "they" seem to want to kill me and demand reparation. History is great but today is today. Get on with life!
 
Margonme":1bkncree said:
Principle rarely provides a reliable source of oil.

The US and Great Britain saw what the paucity of a reliable source of oil did to Germany during WWII.   German tanks were idled in the deserts of North Africa because they ran out of petroleum.

After WWII, the US employed its diplomacy skills to exploit the middle east and assure that the US had reliable access to the extensive reserves of middle east oil.  That went well until two events that you (GB) and I lived through. The following two events were turning points in middle east foreign policy:
I disagree with that in principle as well--and for the same reasons.
You are not nearly as acquainted with Mideast/Muslim history as you think.
 
Margonme":2ozg6tg9 said:
pdfangus":2ozg6tg9 said:
Margonme":2ozg6tg9 said:
Grit, acts of terrorism are disgusting. I condemn them with conviction.

However, you should review the history of US intrusion in the middle east. Early in our history as a nation, the US was viewed by the Islamic people of the middle east as saints compared to our British brothers who stole their resources like a thief in the night. As time passed, the US became as selfish and thieving as our British brothers. Here is a quote of President Franklin D. Roosevelt to a British Ambassador in 1944:

Persian oil … is yours. We share the oil of Iraq and Kuwait. As for Saudi Arabian oil, it's ours.

That brief statement speaks volumes.

I condemn terrorism but even a man as wretchedly prejudice as you confess to be must acknowledge that we raped and pillaged the middle east for over a 100 years. Is it any wonder that they got a burr under their saddle?

Pay backs are heII, my friend. I don't like it either but I can at least acknowledge the pathways that got us here. You don't give me the impression you are capable of doing that.

if we stole it all the how did they get to be so rich?
and if the oil is free then why was gas $4.00 a gallon a few years ago until the dakota fields were opened?

WHO SAID WE STOLE IT? No, it was not free. You are getting lost in the weeds. But we did exploit a sovereign nation in order to exert control of their government and people. HeII, wouldn't that make you hate?

The statement above " We raped and pillaged the middle east for over 100 years."
would infer theft to me....but I am just lost in the weeds not smoking the stuff.
naval gazing as to why they --- and most of the world --- hate us is not very beneficial...
understanding that they hate us is beneficial....
If I ran things I would pull out of the United Nations and kick the United Nations out of the US....most of them hate us as well....they might as well have more reason to do so .......and less foreign aid.

this country needs to get its own affairs in order and quit meddling around the world.
 
lavacarancher":3vh39r6g said:
Margonme":3vh39r6g said:
Grit stated:
Ron I don't buy any of that non sense, Islam has been around since the 7th century and they've been killing, raping and pillaging us ever since.

Same thing can be said of Christians. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Our forefathers considered any intervention into our nation's politics, elections, domestic affairs, or commerce as an act of treason, yet that is exactly what the US did in Iran, Iraq, Kuwait and other middle eastern countries.

This is retaliation.  Not the religious war you and so many want to make it out to be. Its about people regardless of what faith they follow. Every leader in the middle east since WWII has been a puppet of the US.  The Soviet Union and the US played games in the middle east during the Cold War Period.

The only way to retaliate against a world power is terrorism and guerrilla warfare.  They sure as heII are not going to put on red coats and march at us in a line like the British did during the revolutionary war.

The US intruded into the politics and culture of the middle east for a 100 years, now the calf has grown horns.

I was taught many years ago that I shouldn't complain about how things are unless I offered a solution. So what's your solution? I personally never did anything to the Muslims nor for that matter the African Americans but yet "they" seem to want to kill me and demand reparation. History is great but today is today. Get on with life!

One solution is to pursue better long term foreign policy. I did not catch a lot of what Trump ran on but I did catch that he did not support the Bush administration's policies on Iraq. That was optimistic to me.
 
We are at a point of seeing the greatest nation ever in the world implode before our eyes. This has happened all through history that the one on top is the enemy. When you win the trophy ever one out there will be willing to take you on to get to the top.
 

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