Moderate Hereford Bulls

[Ziggy Pop]

Grew up with herefords (80's) but have been out of the business for quite a while. As you know back then, the better using bulls like Stick, 107H, Hotline, etc. Now I'm probably going to start picking up a few head and ease back in but want to find more moderate cattle that are easy fleshing and will thrive in a grass based program. My ideal is 5 or so frame cattle (maybe up to frame 6) that have really clean udders. If you are familiar with Angus cattle, think Tim Olhde or Bill Conley type of cattle. What bulls and herds would you think fit? Thanks,

Jeff

 

[THG]

Knoll Crest Farm, Red House, VA, that is my first bet.

THG

 

[THG]

Another good cowherd is Mead Cattle Enterprises, Midville, GA, Fowken Farms, SC, or even Jim Lents, OK. Jim Lents is a horned breeder.

 

[KMacGinley]

Tim Ohlde has some hereford cattle, Trask herefords I believe, very nice cows.

 

[Ziggy Pop]

Wow, I didn't know that. I knew he ran some shorthorns and along with his Angus II (angus X amerifax) but had never heard talk of herefords.

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

Richard Day, Roff, Ok. 80 head, and not a bad udder in the lot. Frame 5-5.5 cattle with length, depth, thickness, and big square hip. Good feet, dispositions, and not pampered. Hazlett/Turner Ranch bloodlines. If you want frame 4-4.5, Jim Lents would work well. Day cattle will wean probably an average of 100# heavier.

 

[leeshy]

I would strongly consider Ned and Jan Ward. They have one of the best cow herds any where. The udders are flawless and wean big stout calves.

 

[BC]

You might want to visit Don Metch at Canton, TX. Polled Hereford breeder with good solid herd. Breeds for performance.

 

[Stonegate]

Does anyone have any experience with the Henkel Herefords?
Is this the same linebred Lamplighter Henkel line?

 

[jhambley]

Contact Tom Underwood. He is a member of this board and has posted a few times about the Henkel
Herefords. He owns a Lamplighter bull and cows both.

JH

 

[Tom Underwood]

Does anyone have any experience with the Henkel Herefords?
Is this the same linebred Lamplighter Henkel line?

Gene Henkel's phone number is 402-729-5866. Henkel has been pursuing two different major lines since the mid-1950's.

His Lamplighter cattle are not high performance cattle, at least not during the first year. They are 2-4 frame and they average about 350 pounds at weaning. Then again, they are very tightly bred. When bred to other lines, growth is much better one average. They seem to do almost as well on grass or almost nothing as they do on corn. I'll ahve more carcass data after this spring, but it appears that the Lamplighter lines put on a lot of marbling with very little backfat.

Second, Henkel has spent the last 20-30 years developing a line of Line 1 cattle that is polled from slight influence from his historic lines. These cattle are thick and perform quite well. Once again, they'll be a fairly significant outcross from any other Herefords around. For a performance-based polled Hereford herd of 5 frame cattle, these may suit what you are looking for.

 

[Horseless]

Northern Rancher who visits this site has some semen for some good hereford bulls. Also, Brian Simon in South Dakota has some good ones I am told. He visits this site once in a while, I believe as simonhereford. I have been looking for the same thing as you, but haven't made the commiment to do it yet.

 

[rocket2222]

Does anyone have any experience with the Henkel Herefords?
Is this the same linebred Lamplighter Henkel line?

Gene Henkel's phone number is 402-729-5866. Henkel has been pursuing two different major lines since the mid-1950's.

His Lamplighter cattle are not high performance cattle, at least not during the first year. They are 2-4 frame and they average about 350 pounds at weaning. Then again, they are very tightly bred. When bred to other lines, growth is much better one average. They seem to do almost as well on grass or almost nothing as they do on corn. I'll ahve more carcass data after this spring, but it appears that the Lamplighter lines put on a lot of marbling with very little backfat.

Second, Henkel has spent the last 20-30 years developing a line of Line 1 cattle that is polled from slight influence from his historic lines. These cattle are thick and perform quite well. Once again, they'll be a fairly significant outcross from any other Herefords around. For a performance-based polled Hereford herd of 5 frame cattle, these may suit what you are looking for.

I have not had a whole lot of time to post much here lately, so while I had a little time, I thought I would stir it up a little I just can not see any advantage to using these older under performing genetics. If a breeders been in buisness for 50/60 yaers and all he can muster up are calves with 350lb weaning weights, he needs to find another line to breed. From the post above it seems they don't perform when fed grain either, this has got to be some realy poor genetics. [To the original poster]There are plenty of GOOD breeders out there, and despite what some posters want you to believe most every cow does fine on grass, whether they are raised on grass or fed some grain while their growing. At the very least get something that raises a calf big enough to maybe make a little profit at the local sale barn, if you decide its not one you want to keep.

 

[KNERSIE]

Does anyone have any experience with the Henkel Herefords?
Is this the same linebred Lamplighter Henkel line?

Gene Henkel's phone number is 402-729-5866. Henkel has been pursuing two different major lines since the mid-1950's.

His Lamplighter cattle are not high performance cattle, at least not during the first year. They are 2-4 frame and they average about 350 pounds at weaning. Then again, they are very tightly bred. When bred to other lines, growth is much better one average. They seem to do almost as well on grass or almost nothing as they do on corn. I'll ahve more carcass data after this spring, but it appears that the Lamplighter lines put on a lot of marbling with very little backfat.

Second, Henkel has spent the last 20-30 years developing a line of Line 1 cattle that is polled from slight influence from his historic lines. These cattle are thick and perform quite well. Once again, they'll be a fairly significant outcross from any other Herefords around. For a performance-based polled Hereford herd of 5 frame cattle, these may suit what you are looking for.

I have not had a whole lot of time to post much here lately, so while I had a little time, I thought I would stir it up a little I just can not see any advantage to using these older under performing genetics. If a breeders been in buisness for 50/60 yaers and all he can muster up are calves with 350lb weaning weights, he needs to find another line to breed. From the post above it seems they don't perform when fed grain either, this has got to be some realy poor genetics. [To the original poster]There are plenty of GOOD breeders out there, and despite what some posters want you to believe most every cow does fine on grass, whether they are raised on grass or fed some grain while their growing. At the very least get something that raises a calf big enough to maybe make a little profit at the local sale barn, if you decide its not one you want to keep.

I agree that a line with 350lb weaning weights is pretty much useless. There simply cannot be enough milk to raise a thriving calf that grows so slowly.

A decent milking hereford cow will wean a jersey calf that will weigh more at 7 months (been there done that when I had lost a calf and couldn't find a holstein calf in time)

All that being said, I think some of the older genetics still have a lot to offer and can address many faults that have crept in in the drive for heavier and heavier weaning and yearling weights.

 

[Tom Underwood]

I wasn't suggesting using the Lamplighter lines. I was merely posting how they perform in order that someone would not have unrealistic expectations. I also noted the Henkel's L1-influenced cattle perform much better. Henkel was a TPR breeder from the programs inception in the 60's or 70's until 2000, when the fees for TPR breeders changed.

In terms of producing beef for a packer, I absolutely agree that there is no place for the old lines. There could be no place for them other than a museum, but I am not so sure.

I have a theory that some old-line cattle will perform acceptably well in a low input environment and produce very tender beef. The reason their beef will be tender when beef from modern genetics will not is because their nutritional requirements for optimal growth are so low compared to modern genetics. One of the primary causes of a lack of tenderness is a lack of sufficiently available feed to meet nutritional requirements during the first year. Some modern genetics cannot eat enough grass after weaning to meet their requirements and therefore need grain or other supplementation. Further, I think the old genetics may marble rapidly without lots of backfat when place on grain at about 18 months old. I don't know if either of the above theories will hold water. I am working on them along with a few others. If they don't work out, I've lost some money relative to having modern genetics, but I've learned something.

All of my eggs are not in one basket. Out of 200+ cows, fewer than 10 are from old lines. Essentially, I have 50 commercial cows (Angus/Charlois/Hereford), 110 modern registered Herefords, and 40 experiments of various types. This year, I am going to take the bottom 50 Herefords and breed them to a good black bull. If I misjudge a few of them in terms of being in the bottom half, I can always return them to the herd producing registered genetics. My best commercial cows do produce many more pounds of beef at weaning than even my best Herefords do (excepting one), even though I breed to the top bulls and have dams from some of the best breeders including many of those mentioned on this thread. For pure production, hybrid vigor will outdo any breed.

 

[KNERSIE]

I have a theory that some old-line cattle will perform acceptably well in a low input environment and produce very tender beef.

I agree completely with the above statement, I also believe they have a role to play in correcting some faults that have crept into the modern genetics.

I am just puzzled why their weaning weights are so unacceptably low, don't they milk? Like I said with enough milk most any calf will wean heavier than that.

 

[J. T.]

If I were looking for Hereford cattle, I would go to Debter's in Horton, Alabama. They are breeders of Horned Herefords and have a very reputable breeding program.

 

[Tom Underwood]

I agree completely with the above statement, I also believe they have a role to play in correcting some faults that have crept into the modern genetics.

I am just puzzled why their weaning weights are so unacceptably low, don't they milk? Like I said with enough milk most any calf will wean heavier than that.

The dams don't have much milk, but I don't think that is the major issue. I suspect that prior selection criteria, combined with inbreeding depression, cause the results. I think this because when I cross with high-milking dams, growth is still quite sub-par about half the time. The other half, I get very thick calves that grow as well as the modern genetics, sometimes better.

As others have posted, some old lines perform better in terms of growth than others. My calf numbers are still too limited to be able to pinpoint the reasons for the successes and the failures. My goal is to fix the traits in the successes to suit my purposes while aggressively culling the failures. I know that even if I do the job right it'll take generations to make any real progress, but it's fun.