Mix 30, Part II

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dun

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I don;t recall off the top of my head, but it seems that CG is very low in something, maybe calcium or phosphorous. . That is about the only thing that causes me any concern with using it as a straight feed.

dun
 
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Chuckie

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CORN GLUTEN FEED


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Description

Corn gluten feed is a by-product from the manufacture of cornstarch and corn syrup. It is a medium protein feed, which contains almost the same Total Digestible Nutrients level as barley. The protein in corn gluten feed is degraded relatively rapidly in the rumen.

Corn gluten feed has medium palatability and may be included in the grain mixture up to a level of 50 percent or fed to cows at a rate of up to 12 pounds (5.4 kg) per cow per day.

Typical Analysis

Dry matter 90 %
Crude Protein 18.0 %
Fat 03.5 %
Crude fiber 08.0 %
Neutral Detergent Fiber 45.0 %
Acid Detergent Fiber 13.0 %
Calcium 00.3 %
Phosphorus 1.00 %
Total Digestible Nutrients 83.0 %
Net energy—Lactation .87 Mcal



TDN: Beef 88.0%

TDN: Dairy 87.0%

Fat 3.5%

Ash 7.2%

Magnesium 0.5%

Potassium 1.5%

Sulfur 0.3%

Crude Fat 3.5%

Lysine 0.6%

Tryptophan 0.2%

Methionine 0.5%

Cystine 0.4%
 

dun

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Yesterday we turned the girls back into the area that has the mix-30 tank. They've been off of the stuff since August. The pasture is all stockpiled fescue, pretty much what they've been on since they quit getting it, weeds, and frost killed clover. I watched them to see how they reacted to having the stuff reintroduced to their diet. All of them ate a little, then got a drink, most ate some loose minerals but they all went back out and grazed. When we started feeding it there was no pasture, only really crappy hay.
Don;t understand why there is so much of a variation from your experience to ours with feeding the "goop" (my wifes term for mix-30).

dun
 
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Chuckie

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Dun, I can't figure out what the difference is between us. The cows have had all the pasture and hay they wanted, loose minerals, and still they take it down so quick. It almost sounds like we are using two different products. Are you still using the open topped water tanks?
 

dun

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Chuckie":2692329v said:
Are you still using the open topped water tanks?

Yup. I was thnking the same thing about it sounded like being a different product. It should be exactly the same though. What stage of lactation are the cows in? Maybe it's a breed difference. I'ld contact the folks that make the stuff and see what they have to say.

dun
 

Tod Dague

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Chuckie":30n718yq said:
Dun, I can't figure out what the difference is between us. The cows have had all the pasture and hay they wanted, loose minerals, and still they take it down so quick. It almost sounds like we are using two different products. Are you still using the open topped water tanks?
You may have to use a lick wheel. I'd still contact the main office. Are they remixing the product before loading you up? The literature that I read states it will separate over time.
 

dun

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Tod Dague":1x09by8a said:
Chuckie":1x09by8a said:
Dun, I can't figure out what the difference is between us. The cows have had all the pasture and hay they wanted, loose minerals, and still they take it down so quick. It almost sounds like we are using two different products. Are you still using the open topped water tanks?
You may have to use a lick wheel. I'd still contact the main office. Are they remixing the product before loading you up? The literature that I read states it will separate over time.

From the time we quit feeding it until last week it had gotten a crust on it of thick stuff. I used an old electric trolling motor in the tank and it stirred it up really well. Our supplier agitates it in the tank on the truck and then pumps it out rather tehn using gravity to fill our tank.

dun
 

Tod Dague

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dun":3fnt4gho said:
Tod Dague":3fnt4gho said:
Chuckie":3fnt4gho said:
Dun, I can't figure out what the difference is between us. The cows have had all the pasture and hay they wanted, loose minerals, and still they take it down so quick. It almost sounds like we are using two different products. Are you still using the open topped water tanks?
You may have to use a lick wheel. I'd still contact the main office. Are they remixing the product before loading you up? The literature that I read states it will separate over time.

From the time we quit feeding it until last week it had gotten a crust on it of thick stuff. I used an old electric trolling motor in the tank and it stirred it up really well. Our supplier agitates it in the tank on the truck and then pumps it out rather tehn using gravity to fill our tank.

dun
I was thinking that the supplier that Chuckie uses may not remix his and that may be part of the problem with over consumption.
 

dun

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Tod Dague":d5cj2suj said:
I was thinking that the supplier that Chuckie uses may not remix his and that may be part of the problem with over consumption.

ot knowing the exact conditrions, it almost sounds like they're salt deprived, or maybe salt depraved would be more accurate. The stuff is definitly salty. I wonder if that's supposed to be a limiter or something. Still the best course is to check with the company, I think Mike was who I talked to about using it after it had set for a number of months.

dun
 
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Chuckie

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Dun, I keep loose minerals out which include salt. Of course I had to taste the minerals too, and they are definitely salty. The Mix 30 was salty too. But I wonder if the salt percentage is high enough in the mix to slow them down.
I read on their site that it says that salt is a source of controlling the limit that they take in. When I did taste of it, I thought it had enough salt in the mix that it was the deciding factor that it didn't freeze, and not the acidity. I am not sure why acidity isn't supposed to freeze. It don't get any more acid than mixing a batch of margaritas or frozen lemonade in a can.
But I am going to have to agree with you. There is something not right. I will call them when I get up tomorrow afternoon and see what they suggest.
 
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Chuckie

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I talked to the main store and they said to pull the mix from the water source. He asked if I pulled a sample to see how the mix was running. But they seem to think the water is way too close. I am going to get a sample and call the store back. "Mike" was really nice and answered all of my questions.
 
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Chuckie

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OK, I sent in a container of the Mix 30 to Agri Dyne, which is the company that sells it. They ran a test on it and it came out as follows:
I received you sample of MIX 30. We had it tested.



Moisture 57.5

Protein 17.11

Fat 11.42



The test is exactly were it needs to be. It contains a little more protein and fat than the guaranteed analysis. The consumption for your cattle is probably due to either the protein levels in the forage or where the Mix 30 tub is located in the pasture.

So now I will try moving the tanks on the opposite side of the pasture away from the water. Hopefully that will cure the problem.
 

flaboy+

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Just got my liquid feed yesterday. 33% protien, 5% fat. Price is down from last year. Got 600 gallons. Will have to wait and see how quick it goes. My experience is like big bull says. They lick the wheel, go to water, then go eat hay. Then they start the sequence all over. This goes on all day.
 

Crowderfarms

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flaboy+":147walhl said:
Just got my liquid feed yesterday. 33% protien, 5% fat. Price is down from last year. Got 600 gallons. Will have to wait and see how quick it goes. My experience is like big bull says. They lick the wheel, go to water, then go eat hay. Then they start the sequence all over. This goes on all day.
Price may be down, but here the haul bill is not. Very few are using liquid feed any more, around here. I've got 2 lick tanks.1 large and one medium, that are like brand new, I'm going to sell.
 

dcara

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Got to this thread a little late but have some questions I hope ya'll can help me with.

Whats the advantage of the Mix30 if it only has 16% CP compared to 30% in other liquid feeds? Does it just depend on how much CP you think you need to supplement? If so, then how do you calculate how much CP they need. I mean, do you just monitor the cow patty consistency and BCS or do you get a forage analysis and do the nutriant weight calculations (i.e. lbs of feed x %protein etc.). Does a 33% liquid feed make them eat more roughage than a 16% liquid feed?

ollie wrote
DDG is dried distillers grain. It is a co product of ethanol production. It is usually available from most feed stores that are located close to corn production. The further you are from corn the less likely it will be available. Trucking makes the cost uncompetative with other protein away from the corn belt. It is good stuff maynard.

I read an article on byproduct feeds that mentioned the high moisture content in breweries grains which made them uneconomical to truck very far, but it refered to them as "wet" as opposed to "dry" (as in DDG) is this the same thing.

reprint from article on Brewerís Grains
In Alabama, most of the brewerís grains come from two breweries in Georgia. The product is wet with about 20 to 25 percent dry matter. First, it is important to realize that for each 24-ton load of wet brewerís grains purchased, 18 tons of water and 6 tons of feed are on the truck. If the price is
$20 per ton, the price on a dry basis is $80 per ton. The TDN content of wet brewer's grains is 66 to 72 percent, and the crude protein content ranges from 25 to 30 percent.
Shelf life is a general concern when using any wet feed. Wet brewerís grain needs to be stored under anaerobic conditions for best results, although it can be stacked in an open bay if it is to be fed rapidly, especially during the winter months. Free-choice fed 600-pound weaned calves consumed 24 pounds per day (6.2 pounds of dry matter) while grazing bermudagrass pastures and had gains of 1.56 pounds per day for 45 days post-weaning. The bottom line is that its usefulness is limited because of the high water content.

article link
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1237/
 

dun

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dcara":p0z50xn9 said:
Got to this thread a little late but have some questions I hope ya'll can help me with.

Whats the advantage of the Mix30 if it only has 16% CP compared to 30% in other liquid feeds? Does it just depend on how much CP you think you need to supplement? If so, then how do you calculate how much CP they need. I mean, do you just monitor the cow patty consistency and BCS or do you get a forage analysis and do the nutriant weight calculations (i.e. lbs of feed x %protein etc.). Does a 33% liquid feed make them eat more roughage than a 16% liquid feed?

ollie wrote
DDG is dried distillers grain. It is a co product of ethanol production. It is usually available from most feed stores that are located close to corn production. The further you are from corn the less likely it will be available. Trucking makes the cost uncompetative with other protein away from the corn belt. It is good stuff maynard.

I read an article on byproduct feeds that mentioned the high moisture content in breweries grains which made them uneconomical to truck very far, but it refered to them as "wet" as opposed to "dry" (as in DDG) is this the same thing.

reprint from article on Brewerís Grains
In Alabama, most of the brewerís grains come from two breweries in Georgia. The product is wet with about 20 to 25 percent dry matter. First, it is important to realize that for each 24-ton load of wet brewerís grains purchased, 18 tons of water and 6 tons of feed are on the truck. If the price is
$20 per ton, the price on a dry basis is $80 per ton. The TDN content of wet brewer's grains is 66 to 72 percent, and the crude protein content ranges from 25 to 30 percent.
Shelf life is a general concern when using any wet feed. Wet brewerís grain needs to be stored under anaerobic conditions for best results, although it can be stacked in an open bay if it is to be fed rapidly, especially during the winter months. Free-choice fed 600-pound weaned calves consumed 24 pounds per day (6.2 pounds of dry matter) while grazing bermudagrass pastures and had gains of 1.56 pounds per day for 45 days post-weaning. The bottom line is that its usefulness is limited because of the high water content.

article link
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1237/

Can't answer all of the specifics, but the advantage (in theory) is that during the winter cows don;t need protein they need fat. Also, in theory, it's balanced to provide more digestible ingredients.
When the cows were on stockpiled fescue they didn;t eat much of it now that we've started feeding hay they're eating a lot. But the protein is probably only around 8-9% in the hay anyway.

dun
 

jmeggison

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MIX 30 is only 16% protein because we are using three different kinds of protein in the product. About 45% comes from ammonium cholride which is a NPN source. 35% comes from natural proteins, and the other 20% is made up of free amino acids and peptides. Each one of these are used at different rates when they hit the rumen, or they by-pass the rumen and are absorbed in the small intestine. If you have any other questions call me at 800-575-7585 ext 209. I am the sales manager for the south.
 

jmeggison

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Free amino acids are just what it implies. They are by themselves and they are by-passed straight to the small intestine and absorbed by the body.
 

rk

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What specific amino acids are they? What is the benefit of having them absorbed in the small intestine?

With only a 16% protein, does this leave enough RUP to for adequate forage digestion in the rumen?
 

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