Milking Herefords

[Alan]

As some of you know I'm going to an AI program next year, trying to increase the quality of my herd. One of the areas I want to work on is bringing up the MM EPD. I currently have some cows in the high teens and low twenties for MM.

Have any of you found trouble breeding to high MM Hereford bulls? Bad udders, MM EPD doesn't pan out, anything else?

Any suggestions of Polled Hereford bulls to use, or a real good Horned? Looking for good MM, WW,YW EPD's. I don't need a good heifer bull since the cows all have at least 2 calves out of them. I have a pretty good list of AI bulls already but I don't want to miss a good one.

Thanks,
Alan

 

[ollie']

Embracer 8E sure puts alot of milk in his daughters and they have nice udders as well.

 

[SEC]

The World Class cattle come really easy and look good to this point.

 

[redfornow]

For older cows PW victor boomer p606
is a good choice, Milk is a 40 I believe, great udders they can be alittle hard to get on the ground but 4 year olds and up should be fine.
YW is an 80 if memory serves.
Good luck

MD

 

[greenwillowherefords]

P606 YW used to be around 100.

 

[Caustic Burno]

High milk does not always equal high growth sometimes it equals hard keepers and bad bags.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

High milk does not always equal high growth sometimes it equals hard keepers and bad bags.

Yep, you are right.

The old Co-op manager used to tell me that Horned herfs milked better than polled, but both have done well for me. I have found the milk EPDs to be absolutely worthless in my case.

 

[Anonymous]

High milk does not always equal high growth sometimes it equals hard keepers and bad bags.

Yep, you are right.

The old Co-op manager used to tell me that Horned herfs milked better than polled, but both have done well for me. I have found the milk EPDs to be absolutely worthless in my case.

i've found most all EPD's to be worthless...

 

[LFF]

Alan if you want to increase milk I would look at DR World Class milk epd of 33 or RHF IGT Victor 103T milk epd of 27 a older proven bull.

Some others that I would consider are:
HH ADVANCE 767G milk epd 41
CS BOOMER 29F milk epd 31
and last but not lest DWF HL VIC S133 G SEVEN MILK EPD 27

 

[greenwillowherefords]

High milk does not always equal high growth sometimes it equals hard keepers and bad bags.

Yep, you are right.

The old Co-op manager used to tell me that Horned herfs milked better than polled, but both have done well for me. I have found the milk EPDs to be absolutely worthless in my case.

i've found most all EPD's to be worthless...

I've got a MM 6 that milks just as well as a MM 21, and they both had more than enough for their calves.

 

[Alan]

High milk does not always equal high growth sometimes it equals hard keepers and bad bags.

Yep, you are right.

The old Co-op manager used to tell me that Horned herfs milked better than polled, but both have done well for me. I have found the milk EPDs to be absolutely worthless in my case.

i've found most all EPD's to be worthless...

I've got a MM 6 that milks just as well as a MM 21, and they both had more than enough for their calves.

Thanks to all for your responses, able to add a couple of good bulls to my AI bull list.

Help me a little further please, If you fill out the calving reports and send in the BW and WW to the AHA, doesn't that adjust the EPD's? So if your cow with the 6 MM produces a calf as heavy as you 21 MM, the 6MM should be adjusted by the AHA to a higher level. I'm assuming this is why the EPD's are changing on the subject animal so often.

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Anonymous]

High milk does not always equal high growth sometimes it equals hard keepers and bad bags.

Yep, you are right.

The old Co-op manager used to tell me that Horned herfs milked better than polled, but both have done well for me. I have found the milk EPDs to be absolutely worthless in my case.

i've found most all EPD's to be worthless...

I've got a MM 6 that milks just as well as a MM 21, and they both had more than enough for their calves.

yep...a lot of people are so worried about EPD's that they dont stop to even take a look at what they're buying...they say "well the EPD's look good...it must be good"...I think thats the biggest mistake some people make...caring more about the EPDs than the actual bull or cow thats standing in front of them...the MM dont have to be 20+ for the cow to be a good milker...i'd be happy with a MM of 5 or 6 just like you said...some of them milk just as good as a MM 21

 

[Alan]

the MM dont have to be 20+ for the cow to be a good milker...i'd be happy with a MM of 5 or 6 just like you said...some of them milk just as good as a MM 21

But if you have a cow with a 6 MM and it milks as well as a a 21 MM, then your cow is not a 6 MM EPD. My thoughts is it should be adjusted. I do agree that you need more than EPD's for good cattle, they have to have good looks (depth, length, udder, legs, etc.) before you consider the EPD's

Alan

 

[Bez!]

High milk does not always equal high growth sometimes it equals hard keepers and bad bags.

Yep, you are right.

The old Co-op manager used to tell me that Horned herfs milked better than polled, but both have done well for me. I have found the milk EPDs to be absolutely worthless in my case.

i've found most all EPD's to be worthless...

Heritage_Farmboy

You know something my friend - I absolutely double dog dare you to start a thread and use this for a title:

hey frankie - your epd's are worthless!!!

I bet you a buck it starts a schitzen storm that goes for 10 pages before it gets locked out!

Go ahead - I dare ya!

Bez!

 

[msscamp]

High milk does not always equal high growth sometimes it equals hard keepers and bad bags.

Yep, you are right.

The old Co-op manager used to tell me that Horned herfs milked better than polled, but both have done well for me. I have found the milk EPDs to be absolutely worthless in my case.

i've found most all EPD's to be worthless...

Heritage_Farmboy

You know something my friend - I absolutely double dog dare you to start a thread and use this for a title:

hey frankie - your epd's are worthless!!!

I bet you a buck it starts a schitchen storm that goes for 10 pages before it gets locked out!

Go ahead - I dare ya!

Bez!

Uh oh! :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[cowsense]

One of the real problems with using EPD's is that people tend to select for extremes whether in performance or milk. Extremes usually bring their own set of problems- ie. calving ease, soundness, fertility etc.. It doesn't matter what breed of cows you raise, it takes a high volume easy fleshing animal to maintain high milk production without special supplementation and to maintain an acceptable calving interval. If milk was the only criteria we could all produce dairy cattle; unfortunately they recquire extra management and supplementation to support a fairly short production life! I really feel that choosing a middle of the road approach to MM (particularily for British cattle) will take a herd much further and be more productive in the long run than selecting for extremes and risking the wrecks that can occur!

 

[Beef11]

ALAN, I can recomend a couple bulls or breeders that have bulls that they sell semen on. My question is where do you run these cattle? I'm very familiar with the northern half of Oregon. I'm an Idaho boy so we're neighbors (my wife is from NW oregon) I know that Elkington Polled herefords has some really excellent bulls some of which they collect. I have bought cows form them and they milked very well and they have put alot of emphasis on under structure and quality. They are functional and ran in rough country year round. Another outfit that has a real progressive operation is Split Butte out of Rupert Idaho (i think). PM me and i can give you some more particulars. As far as EPDs go, they are nice but visual inspection of progeny and epds is nicer. Some people just like to buck science because its not always perfect (and They ARE).

 

[txag]

The old Co-op manager used to tell me that Horned herfs milked better than polled

really? the Co-op manager? :roll:

Help me a little further please, If you fill out the calving reports and send in the BW and WW to the AHA, doesn't that adjust the EPD's? So if your cow with the 6 MM produces a calf as heavy as you 21 MM, the 6MM should be adjusted by the AHA to a higher level. I'm assuming this is why the EPD's are changing on the subject animal so often.

Thanks,
Alan

performance data will affect the epd's but keep in mind that the dam's milking ability is not the only factor that affects weaning weight (the calf's own growth potential, for one). so, just because a calf has a high weaning weight, his dam's milking ability may not be the only reason for it.

the data used in epd calculations is collected from many herds across the US. every time a relative of your cow has data sent in, her epd's can be affected. because of this, a cow will probably not have enough calves in her lifetime to cause a "significant" change in her epd's.

well, you have the "defense" above, so now for the disclaimer.......i have noticed in our own herd, that MM seems to be the epd most often misrepresented in our cows. we have a couple of Highway heifers whose MM's are in the mid to high 20's & they don't have enough milk to feed a mouse while the cow below is only about a +14 MM:

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

As some of you know I'm going to an AI program next year, trying to increase the quality of my herd. One of the areas I want to work on is bringing up the MM EPD. I currently have some cows in the high teens and low twenties for MM.

Have any of you found trouble breeding to high MM Hereford bulls? Bad udders, MM EPD doesn't pan out, anything else?

Any suggestions of Polled Hereford bulls to use, or a real good Horned? Looking for good MM, WW,YW EPD's. I don't need a good heifer bull since the cows all have at least 2 calves out of them. I have a pretty good list of AI bulls already but I don't want to miss a good one.

Thanks,
Alan

Alan, I would use DR World Class 517 10H or SHF Red Oak M326 R96. Reason beginning to use either one of these bulls is because I have seen the milking power of both of these sires dams. BOth of the dams to these bulls never had a bad udder, and had an out of this world udder structure. World Class would bring your milk EPD up, so would Red Oak. Try either one of these beef bulls out for yourself and see. The calves are really thick and have plenty of growth and volume. Use World Class on anything and I would use Red Oak on just Cows, he is not a heifer type bull. I hope I have been a big help. I hope everything works out. Checkout the 2006 July Hereford World Ad and there is going to be a full page of SHF Red Oak M326 R96. Take care.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Been awhile since I looked at his EPD, but what about Mr. Mom from Shaw Cattle Co?