Little Joe said:
M.Magis said:
Little Joe said:
That may be so but let's face it even when you are running them good mainstream cattle you might be getting top dollar at the barn but your inputs are going to be high. I was talking to an old man the other day that has always kept his herd up with the trend and he says it's just not profitable, he's looking at buying longhorn and longhorn crosses to run with good bulls. I myself bought a few longhorn cows last fall bred to a black baldie bull and I think from the inputs so far and what I have in them that even with the longhorn dock they will be pretty profitable due to low inputs and low maintenance. Most people aren't looking at their inputs when they brag about what their calves brought at the barn. I want cattle that work for me not the other way around. I've had registered angus and mainstream commercial cows and always lost money on them so I have to do something different.
Why in the world would inputs be high for running "mainstream" cattle? If you lost money on cattle because they were "mainstream", the fault doesn't lie with the cows.
Bigger framed cattle eat more hay, require more acres per cow, don't have the longevity, and have more fly problems than a small- moderate framed cow. Also a black cow is not going to tolerate heat as well as a red one. Black ones also tend to attract more flies. Look up the studies that have been done regarding the size of cattle in comparison to number of flies on them, the studies show that the larger they get the more flies due to fewer hair follicles per square inch on larger cattle with the exception of Brahman cattle. Brahman cattle had more hair follicles per sq inch than any other breed. A lot of cattle that are out there also don't do very well on fescue. Where I live you'd be hard pressed to not have fescue in a pasture. Everyone I know that has mainstream type cattle will tell you themselves that when prIces are good they make money, when they're down they're losing money and that mostly has to do with inputs. I've had different types of cattle and inputs vary with size and type. This nonsense that a 1500 lb cow won't eat anymore than a 1000 lb cow is just that, nonsense. I see you're in Ohio, have you ever been in Arkansas this time of year? We have air you can wear, you have to cut the stuff with a knife, Big black cattle struggle in this environment. I have a black bull and he spends most of his time in the shade or pond when it get this hot.
This is a discussion of extremes.
Like BFE said, you have to think before you buy.
The bunk on black cows is just that. Read the original research literature and the hair and frame score was more important than the color.
Heat, humidity, fescue, flies: we specialize in them all. What do we have? All registered Angus. What have we done? Studied, bred and selected. Cows and bulls are grazing most of the day as needed. Sure, we provide shade and they use it. I like shade, too! Average calf growth for the conditions from Feb/March calving thru weaning averages about 2.25 pounds per day from past years on pastures. Breed back is good. This year's calving season lasted a whopping 46 days. Some cows going on 15 YO and doing fine from 1100 to 1475 pounds. Where do we look for replacements? Those types of cows. "Like begets like." It's not just a blanket statement type issue. I've been in AR and seen registered Angus that functioned fine there on fescue. They were much like ours in type and selection. The type: Bonsma selection type. Early shedding plus much more.
It is not about extremes or following a guru. It is a business. What sells? What makes a loss? A loss here, guaranteed, is a short framed off type, off color calf. What do commercial breeders not want: short framed, off type, off color bulls and females. Sure, short farmed cattle fatten quicker if you want freezer beef to be your business. But the buyers do not want extreme fat. So that has limits, too.
Fit the cattle to what you have. The bull of the month "mainstream" as you call them are sourcing to registered breeders with a average time of herd existence of 7 years or less. If you want those bulls and what they can do for you as a commercial breeder, find out all that they do. They only tell you the good. But if the growth and milk EPDs are increased and you get problems that were not disclosed, you pay for it. Either on the calf's extra growth thru weaning and demanding extra milk and feed (will see lower breed back) or in keeping the heifers, extra culling and seeing them grow to be blimps.
