Making a living

[Brandonm22]

So if I make more than 75 000 at my off farm job I am doing good and making a profit. So then it really dont matter if I am a cattle barron with 40 million acres.

I would think you could do allot better because you should be able to get a refund for 100% of the taxes you paid as the result of your off-the-farm employment provided you are not profitable, usually as the result of being a first generation farmer with a land payment. If you are a second or higher generation farmer, this could be an entire different ball game. The trick would be to be ethical, pay a little taxes, and increase assets much faster than liabilities. This value will show up in net worth, which is what working is all about for many.

Yea give me the 40 million acres and accompanying cows and I am confident that I will find a way to squeeze more than $70,000 a year out of it......or I will hire somebody who can.

 

[somn]

To earn this income a family needs approximately 928 acres of corn and soybeans, 127 dairy cows, 10,717 head of hogs from weaning to finish or 948 head of beef cows in a beef cow-calf operation.

If land was selling for $3K per acre, then the cost of the land for 948 beef cows at a stocking rate of 1 acre to 1 pair (superb rich land), would be about $2.844M. If one were to finance the land after putting 15% down, or $426.6K, with a 6% interest rate on 20 years, amortized payments would run $17.319K per month.

You can't buy sub par land in southern MN for $5500 per acre. They sold a hilly half section for $5950 the other night.

 

[Jim62]

Around here, if you didn't inherit the land, you can forget about making any money farming. A couple weeks ago, a 1,000 acre ranch sold for about $4000 per acre. It is about half unimproved pasture, and about half dense brush, basically just raw land. If you want just 40 or 50 acres, you're looking at a minimum of $10 to $15 thousand per acre and up. You might make money on your cows, but you ain't never gonna make your land payment.........

 

[Dave]

I was just looking in the classified ads in the Capital Press (northwest ag paper). The asking price on ranches figures out to about $8,000 to $10,000 per cow. So what would calves have to be worth to service that kind of debt? The total value of the calf just covers the interest with nothing left for operating costs.

 

[ga. prime]

exactly why I have an off farm engineering job to support my cattle and farming addiction.

That's interesting. You and backhoeboogie got the same job.

 

[ga. prime]

You're at Oak Ridge nuke plant? You don't have to answer that. Nice job.

 

[Brandonm22]

I was just looking in the classified ads in the Capital Press (northwest ag paper). The asking price on ranches figures out to about $8,000 to $10,000 per cow. So what would calves have to be worth to service that kind of debt? The total value of the calf just covers the interest with nothing left for operating costs.

We are reaching a point where you have to have a large portion or all of the money going in. Even someone with a $150,000 a year off farm job can't service the debt on most large (1000++ acres) ranches. This may be becoming a purely cash game......which dramatically decreases the buyer pool. Of course I have grave concerns about where the dollar is headed (see Leeman, AIG, WAMU, Merrill, Fannie, Freddie, Indie Mac, Bear,....). A $3 million ranch MAY not be as expensive as we think it is in a short while to come.

 

[backhoeboogie]

We are reaching a point where you have to have a large portion or all of the money going in. Even someone with a $150,000 a year off farm job can't service the debt on most large (1000++ acres) ranches. This may be becoming a purely cash game......which dramatically decreases the buyer pool. Of course I have grave concerns about where the dollar is headed (see Leeman, AIG, WAMU, Merrill, Fannie, Freddie, Indie Mac, Bear,....). A $3 million ranch MAY not be as expensive as we think it is in a short while to come.

There are areas where the economy is depressed and good farm land can still be had for reasonable rates. Many people are buying farms in these areas with the thoughts of retiring there. "I got 5 times the acreage 200 miles away for half the cost" is what one engineer told me recently. The pictures I have seen of the place are good. It needs some work and he is doing that. He's already moved his equipment there and gets up there every other weekend or so. The house is not bad and the barns are okay too. He'll sell his house and land here and build a new home there at retirement in a few years.

There are atleast a dozen or so peers who have bought places in south east Oklahoma for less than $1K an acre.

One of the problems here is that they take the prime farm land and turn it into sub-divisions. Then the best land in the county has a Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes etc. Plus all the parking lots and small businesses. The rocky hilltops that can't be farmed sit there with nothing being done to them. Good farm land is being wasted by housing. Breaks your heart.

 

[dun]

There are areas where the economy is depressed and good farm land can still be had for reasonable rates.

It's sure not happening around here. Since january of 2007 only 14 farms have been sold in the area. That includes this county and the edges of 4 others that butt up against it. People still seem to think that just because some idiot paid 3-5k an acre 2 years ago that their place is worth that. The strange part is that when one sells at an absolute auction they're paying that 5k an acre. I've talked to a couple of realtors that have had places sell at auction for more then they were listed for. Go figure!

 

[backhoeboogie]

It's sure not happening around here. Since january of 2007 only 14 farms have been sold in the area. That includes this county and the edges of 4 others that butt up against it. People still seem to think that just because some idiot paid 3-5k an acre 2 years ago that their place is worth that. The strange part is that when one sells at an absolute auction they're paying that 5k an acre. I've talked to a couple of realtors that have had places sell at auction for more then they were listed for. Go figure!

It is the same here dun. There is no way I would buy my river front for what the appraisers say it is worth but it went for $20K an acre down the road. Electricty is 1/4 mile off and it is expensive to get it to the well that needs to be 400 feet deep. There must be big bucks in turf grass. The sandy loam is now a turf grass farm. T

There are some peers buying farms near Palestine, TX but most are buying in south east Oklahoma.

 

[1982vett]

As long as property is just listed, the opportunity to buy is still their. Absolute auction is now or never. If you get to people with the means and they both want it bad enough the money will flow. A few years ago a two fellers got into a bidding war for a piece of ground. One had family ties to it and the other was a neighbor. It went for about twice what most was selling for in the area, except now it has added about a $1000 and acre asking price for everthing else in the area.

 

[Brandonm22]

Around here nothing is selling either. A lot of folks made big money selling to builders and speculators during the Great housing bubble. A couple of years ago, there were 6700 new homes built in the Birmingham Region of ALabama. MOST of that were in rural counties ringing the center city (Shelby, St, Clair, and Blount counties). After the crash, (according to the Bham News) we will struggle to get 2,200 homes built. The paper estimates that over 60% of the home builders in the region will be bankrupt or otherwise out of business by January. The builder who ended up with the 58 acres we sold in front of the house got foreclosed on as well. After building garden homes at an incredibly frenetic pace, nobody is building anything out there and there are ~10 unsold/unfinished homes just sitting out there. Landowners who missed out on the bubble don't realize that there are NO developers out there any more so they stick with their $5000 to $7000 an acre prices and nothing ever sells.

 

[Limomike]

It is the same here dun. There is no way I would buy my river front for what the appraisers say it is worth but it went for $20K an acre down the road. Electricty is 1/4 mile off and it is expensive to get it to the well that needs to be 400 feet deep. There must be big bucks in turf grass. The sandy loam is now a turf grass farm.

There is big money in the turf grass farming.. we got three of those farms around us. Their businesses are thriving.

 

[HerefordSire]

You're at Oak Ridge nuke plant? You don't have to answer that. Nice job.

I wont say specifically to protect myself and the plant but you could say I work in that general area.

Your income is likely considerably higher than $75K. You wouldn't be by chance prsonally responsible for the Tennesse Valley Authority mistakes in building the dam would you? :mrgreen:

 

[backhoeboogie]

Nope dont work for TVA. I did work for them back in the 80's as a fire arm instructor for the guards. Other than that I have never worked for them.

Do you work at a nuke too? This was a dying industry for 30 years. Now it is blowing wide open. I am getting offers for way more than I am worth.

 

[HerefordSire]

Nope dont work for TVA. I did work for them back in the 80's as a fire arm instructor for the guards. Other than that I have never worked for them.

Do you work at a nuke too? This was a dying industry for 30 years. Now it is blowing wide open. I am getting offers for way more than I am worth.

I work for the Department of Energy. That is all I am at liberty to say. Due to top secret security at the facility in which I work.

Ca-Ching! Are you pensionized yet?

 

[HerefordSire]

I will have retirement at the 30 year mark. Got about 7 more years to go and I can retire on pension.

That is great! I will root for you! I knew a Georgia gentleman about 80 or so at the time, that was a triple dipper. I think... the Navy, the Telephone Company, and one other...I can't remember. Will you be a single dipper in seven years?

 

[HerefordSire]

Double, I am already a senior citizen so I will have have ssi and the retirement benefits.

That was probably the one I couldn't remember for the older gent (SSI). There are not too many ways one can get a pension these days. Many companies will try to offer early payouts so the can get out of having to pay the money for longer terms than expected due to people living longer. You should feel good about yourself. If you are not married and you are straight, I could only imagine the number of women trying to land you. To prevent the onslaught of women tempting you, you might want to get an old pair of overalls, and old truck, etc. to hide what you have so you know true love. :mrgreen:

 

[CKC1586]

Double, I am already a senior citizen so I will have have ssi and the retirement benefits.

That was probably the one I couldn't remember for the older gent (SSI). There are not too many ways one can get a pension these days. Many companies will try to offer early payouts so the can get out of having to pay the money for longer terms than expected due to people living longer. You should feel good about yourself. If you are not married and you are straight, I could only imagine the number of women trying to land you. To prevent the onslaught of women tempting you, you might want to get an old pair of overalls, and old truck, etc. to hide what you have so you know true love. :mrgreen:

Just have to comment here on the "SSI", if you are referring to Social Security benefits, SSI means Supplemental Security Benefits. RSDI is Retirement, Survivors, Disability Insurance. SSI is for folks that do not have enough work quarters to qualify for regular social security benefits.

 

[HerefordSire]

Double, I am already a senior citizen so I will have have ssi and the retirement benefits.

That was probably the one I couldn't remember for the older gent (SSI). There are not too many ways one can get a pension these days. Many companies will try to offer early payouts so the can get out of having to pay the money for longer terms than expected due to people living longer. You should feel good about yourself. If you are not married and you are straight, I could only imagine the number of women trying to land you. To prevent the onslaught of women tempting you, you might want to get an old pair of overalls, and old truck, etc. to hide what you have so you know true love. :mrgreen:

I have been married since I was 27 years old. I am now 60. I have two grown kids one 30 and the other 29 both boys. I have a bachelor of science degree in education and a minor in animal science from Tennessee Tech Univeristy. I also have a masters degree in industrial engineering from Univeristy of Tennessee Knoxville. Wife has been teaching since we were married and still is today.

I am 47 now and I got married when I was 21 and had twin sons @ 22. Now they are 25 as of Sept. 11th. Note the date. Twins.....9/11....I started thinking about this, and was laying on the bed watching the news one evening on my birthday which is July 30th. Then all of the sudden, they started talking about how Bin Laden's birthday was on July 30th. Well, I put two and two together and I started getting scared. Well, cooincidence right? Come to find out, my girl friend at the time had her birthday on the same day as George Bush's birthday (June 12th). I won't tell you the rest. :mrgreen: