making a living ranching

[cross_7]

i've looked back at some of the "safe choices" i've made over the years and have thought what if i had taken a chance.
now i'm thinking when i turn 65 and retire, am i going kick myself for not taking a chance and now it's too late.
i've always based my decisions on security, whether is was for fun or financial i always wanted to be safe.
i've now learned there is no safety in anything.
all it would take for a lot a people would be a job loss or say health issue's even with good insurance the loss of your paycheck for a few weeks or months would sink a lot of people.
i've never heard anyone on their death bed say "i wish i had worked harder and had less fun".
heck i my may quit my job and become a professional team roper-bass fisherman-bowhunter extraordinaire and part time cow nurse. :cowboy:

When the kids came along it was about providing the best for them. That is a definition that is different for every man.

i've have two grown son's and a daughter that's 12 and if she turns out as good as her two older brothers i'll feel purty good about the job my wife has done raising them in spite of my interaction.

 

[rnh1]

My dad's advice was-"Every job has it's headaches. You change jobs you change headaches. Figure out which headache you want to put up with and stick with it."

 

[Isomade]

My dad's advice was-"Every job has it's headaches. You change jobs you change headaches. Figure out which headache you want to put up with and stick with it."

Your dad is a wise man.

 

[lynnmcmahan]

i've looked back at some of the "safe choices" i've made over the years and have thought what if i had taken a chance.
now i'm thinking when i turn 65 and retire, am i going kick myself for not taking a chance and now it's too late.
i've always based my decisions on security, whether is was for fun or financial i always wanted to be safe.
i've now learned there is no safety in anything.
all it would take for a lot a people would be a job loss or say health issue's even with good insurance the loss of your paycheck for a few weeks or months would sink a lot of people.
i've never heard anyone on their death bed say "i wish i had worked harder and had less fun".
heck i my may quit my job and become a professional team roper-bass fisherman-bowhunter extraordinaire and part time cow nurse. :cowboy:

I was a working stiff for 39 years in a shipyard and thought the grass was greener somewhere else but not enough to try it. When retirement came in '04 I got cold feet because there was no turning back once I retired. I did retire at 60 with 39 years and I have no regrets. I am blessed with good health, a good wife, two good kids and two GK's. I always lived close to the bone and still do. I can say that I didn't give my kids the best, just what I wanted them to have. I believe I owed my kids personal care and protection, teach them who Jesus is and take them to church, a good education, and all the love a daddy has. We live in MS, the fattest most ignorant state in the USA.
Both my kids went to graduate school. My sons starting salary was more than my retired salary. He puts people to sleep for heart surgery. Don't let anybody tell you that you can't get an education in MS.
After three score and seven years, God said that man has three score and ten, I think time is very important to me. I got a house paid for, three boats, about twenty assorted guns, two TW horses, two super squirrel dogs ten beautiful black angus cows, F250 super duty but I have no idea how much time I have. Hardware is fun but not important.
What you do with your life is your business. It helps to have a good head, I wasn't overly blessed there, remember John Wayne said," life's tough,if you're dumb it's tougher."
Can you make a living ranching? Yes indeed; however, I think ranching would be more fun when you don't have to make a living.

When the kids came along it was about providing the best for them. That is a definition that is different for every man.

i've have two grown son's and a daughter that's 12 and if she turns out as good as her two older brothers i'll feel purty good about the job my wife has done raising them in spite of my interaction.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

No, could not do that. We are early baby boomers. We can't "start over" now. If you can do this, without losing your a$$ in this economy, with the current markets . . . bravo!! Hindsight is always 20/20 -- had we done this; had we done that. But can't go there today. Even if you're pretty young, if it all goes to shyt, you need to know how you'll survive the rest of your days. Scarey.

I work full-time; hubby works parttime seasonally and has SS. Our cattle are more my passion than a livelihood, but I think we're doing a little better on that every year. We continue to make land improvements w/irrigation, weed control, better pasture. This will never be hay ground.

 

[backhoeboogie]

i've looked back at some of the "safe choices" i've made over the years and have thought what if i had taken a chance.
now i'm thinking when i turn 65 and retire, am i going kick myself for not taking a chance and now it's too late.
i've always based my decisions on security, whether is was for fun or financial i always wanted to be safe.
i've now learned there is no safety in anything.
all it would take for a lot a people would be a job loss or say health issue's even with good insurance the loss of your paycheck for a few weeks or months would sink a lot of people.
i've never heard anyone on their death bed say "i wish i had worked harder and had less fun".
heck i my may quit my job and become a professional team roper-bass fisherman-bowhunter extraordinaire and part time cow nurse. :cowboy:

When the kids came along it was about providing the best for them. That is a definition that is different for every man.

i've have two grown son's and a daughter that's 12 and if she turns out as good as her two older brothers i'll feel purty good about the job my wife has done raising them in spite of my interaction.

I did the best I possibly could for the kids. One of them is living the fairy tale life now so it was worth the effort. The other one simply "reloaded" me with kids to raise. Doing the best I can for those two grandsons now practically all on my own. Life is good.

 

[Goodlife]

No, could not do that. We are early baby boomers. We can't "start over" now. If you can do this, without losing your a$$ in this economy, with the current markets . . . bravo!! Hindsight is always 20/20 -- had we done this; had we done that. But can't go there today. Even if you're pretty young, if it all goes to shyt, you need to know how you'll survive the rest of your days. Scarey.

I work full-time; hubby works parttime seasonally and has SS. Our cattle are more my passion than a livelihood, but I think we're doing a little better on that every year. We continue to make land improvements w/irrigation, weed control, better pasture. This will never be hay ground.

Sounds like you have had an implicit plan all along to me Kathie. I have two in college and 1 in HS. I have worked hard my whole life at corporate jobs and saved as much as I can. In the end my kids will have college paid for whcih I am proud of giving my kids a fighting chance of financial success being well educated and debt free. I have saved enough I am getting ready to purchase 25 acres and get back to the country life I grew up with. I guess I'll work a few more years at he company job. My kids laugh, but I made a point of wanting to have a place for the family to go to if it as you say, "goes to shyt". I am a very fortunate man in that I got lucky in my stupid youth and married an awesome woman. So if I have my small place, a few head of cattle, my wife, our health, and no debt, I am among the most fortunate of all people.

I probably need to apologize after sharing more than most want to hear. :tiphat:

 

[snickers]

my story is alittle different, married young 2 boys and no money. worked hard all our live's one son had to put hisself through college poor guy. he was so smart he could of went to school anywhere but didnt have our help financially sad but true. he ended up opening a business in the town he grew up in and i work for him. i feel really blessed because i have two grandkids that we adore and my other son has a small farm that we have the cow's on and everyone enjoys the farm. we are not rich but we are happy and a old wise man told me once dont save everything you have for retirement because he did and he and his wife were gonna travel after their kids were raised and the poor guy had a heart attack right after retirement and then the same year he got cancer two yrs later he died and never got to travel. he said dont wait to do something if you do you may never get the opportunity and all the money in the world can't change that.

 

[Waldershrek]

My dad's advice was-"Every job has it's headaches. You change jobs you change headaches. Figure out which headache you want to put up with and stick with it."

That's great advice.

I'm trying to get into the farming thing. I have a full time job in Law Enforcement so it would be more of a hobby. I would love to tell work to shove it and farm full time but the reality is that I just can't afford it.

 

[Stepbystep]

IM with CB on this one.. Why would you want to??

LOL at about 17 years old, I vowed to never have a garden and never own a cow. I still don't have a garden.

Sounds like my dad when he refused to put a fireplace in the house. Said "I have cut and split my last dam stick of wood".

I have a garden but no cow ...YET LOL

Any thoughts on how many cows you need to make a break even and/or profit?

 

[Caustic Burno]

You better be a jack of all trades and tighter than a crab's ass and that is waterproof. Average non drought year by my book's it cost 1.25 to 1.35 a day to keep ole belle in the pasture. That is roughly 500 buck's to maintain the cow if you want them to pay their way. I haven't read any data on profit margin lately. Last I read national average was a 100 dollar's a head profit. You have to remember you are not going to get a 100% calf crop.
Starting out I doubt you will break even or make a profit for at least ten years.
Best way to make a little money in the cow business is to start out with a lot.

 

[Stepbystep]

You better be a jack of all trades and tighter than a crab's ass and that is waterproof. Average non drought year by my book's it cost 1.25 to 1.35 a day to keep ole belle in the pasture. That is roughly 500 buck's to maintain the cow if you want them to pay their way. I haven't read any data on profit margin lately. Last I read national average was a 100 dollar's a head profit. You have to remember you are not going to get a 100% calf crop.
Starting out I doubt you will break even or make a profit for at least ten years.
Best way to make a little money in the cow business is to start out with a lot.

What do you gentleman think is a reason able number of cattle for a first time to start with?

 

[Goodlife]

This post has me thinking. It is interesting forst to consider why they are willing to lease this land for such a small amount? If it is $55k to lease and fertilize, and you are assuming $25k of that is fert, then they are basically asking $30k to lease 386 acres or less than $100 per acre. I obviously made some of these numbers up tryint to be conservative based on what I have read so far. If land is worh $4000, and it is worth twice that for good pasture here, that is less than 2.5% on the value of the land. Add the cattle and buildings etc... and they may be looking at CD like returns. Why hang on to it at those prices? Perhaps they are looking for you to continue to improve the land for them so they can sell it when the market makes some recovery? That means if you do end up leasing it, be sure it will be guaranteed available next year, and the next to get a reasonable return on your investment. That is if you can find a way to make a profit here.

I played with some numbers and it seems you must sell somewhere in the range of $150,000 worth of cattle to cover the $55K plus other expenses, and have anything left to come close to a living income. Looks like this goes to show what has been discussed many times on this board...you cannot cover the land cost with your cattle income. That is a separate investment you hope to recover with some gain some day (or at least your kids be able to).

 

[Goodlife]

This post has me thinking. It is interesting forst to consider why they are willing to lease this land for such a small amount? If it is $55k to lease and fertilize, and you are assuming $25k of that is fert, then they are basically asking $30k to lease 386 acres or less than $100 per acre. I obviously made some of these numbers up tryint to be conservative based on what I have read so far. If land is worh $4000, and it is worth twice that for good pasture here, that is less than 2.5% on the value of the land. Add the cattle and buildings etc... and they may be looking at CD like returns. Why hang on to it at those prices? Perhaps they are looking for you to continue to improve the land for them so they can sell it when the market makes some recovery? That means if you do end up leasing it, be sure it will be guaranteed available next year, and the next to get a reasonable return on your investment. That is if you can find a way to make a profit here.

I played with some numbers and it seems you must sell somewhere in the range of $150,000 worth of cattle to cover the $55K plus other expenses, and have anything left to come close to a living income. Looks like this goes to show what has been discussed many times on this board...you cannot cover the land cost with your cattle income. That is a separate investment you hope to recover with some gain some day (or at least your kids be able to).

Sorry, jumping around and posted this on the wrong conversation. :lol2: :bang: :bang: :???: :deadhorse:

 

[Stepbystep]

This post has me thinking. It is interesting forst to consider why they are willing to lease this land for such a small amount? If it is $55k to lease and fertilize, and you are assuming $25k of that is fert, then they are basically asking $30k to lease 386 acres or less than $100 per acre. I obviously made some of these numbers up tryint to be conservative based on what I have read so far. If land is worh $4000, and it is worth twice that for good pasture here, that is less than 2.5% on the value of the land. Add the cattle and buildings etc... and they may be looking at CD like returns. Why hang on to it at those prices? Perhaps they are looking for you to continue to improve the land for them so they can sell it when the market makes some recovery? That means if you do end up leasing it, be sure it will be guaranteed available next year, and the next to get a reasonable return on your investment. That is if you can find a way to make a profit here.

I played with some numbers and it seems you must sell somewhere in the range of $150,000 worth of cattle to cover the $55K plus other expenses, and have anything left to come close to a living income. Looks like this goes to show what has been discussed many times on this board...you cannot cover the land cost with your cattle income. That is a separate investment you hope to recover with some gain some day (or at least your kids be able to).

Sorry, jumping around and posted this on the wrong conversation. :lol2: :bang: :bang: :???: :deadhorse:

He may have posted on the wrong board but his point is a good one. If you experienced ranches don't mind chiming in on this. Is land truly a separate investment? So 1st key is to save up and get a small piece of land , say 100 to 200 acres and run a small herd and develop that herd, then grow the land side when u can from profits from cattle?

Any thoughts?

 

[marksmu]

That is my plan....I lease property from my dad, who bought it as an investment. Got a good long term lease, but I have to make quite a few pasture improvements he was dead set on. He absolutely loves any kind of seat time in the tractor so he bought the equipment to "play with" I direct what needs to be done and pay for it and on his days off he goes and does the tractor work.....He does not enjoy dealing with the cattle though....so I do 100% of that. Current plan is to slowly grow the operation until I have about 250-300 mama cows....I plan to let the cattle on the leased property pay for the property I eventually buy....we are keeping all the heifer calves, and buying better bulls every other year...once I get to 300 head of mamas, I should be able to afford payments on another piece of property....slow and steady. Its been a 7 year plan from the start. Were right on track with 3 years left.

 

[Dave]

I do believe that leasing land is the best way to start. Maybe even the best way to be in business. I do realize that this is the world wide web and things vary a lot in different parts of the world. But in this area there is land for lease for basically paying the taxes. I know people who make 100% of their living from cattle who are on 100% leased ground. There is simply a lot less start up cost working on leased ground. Land is by far the most expensive portion of the start up equation and the biggest investment. The down side of leasing is losing the lease. To off set this issue work on having multiple leases. That way the loss of one property wont put you out of business.
I think CB's figure of $1.25-1.35 a day per cow is pretty close. That $500 per year per cow makes 400 pound calves at $1.25 a break even. But it makes this years 700 pound calves at $1.25 look pretty good. However, if a person thinks all years will be like this one...... well they aren't going to be.
I think it will take 300 cows to make a living. Many more than that and a person will probably be looking to hire help. Less than that and it will be a mighty thin living.
I also think a person has to be willing to think outside the box. Just straight cow/calf, raising your own heifers, buying better bulls, and selling calves at weaning puts you into the same market as a lot of other people. Direct marketing if you live close enough to population centers. Bringing in outside stockers to graze off extra grass. Those are a couple ideas. Every area has an unfair advantage. It could be cheap feed, mild winters, inexpensive pasture leases, or a strong market.... figure out what the unfair advantage is that you have a capitalize on it.

 

[JSCATTLE]

I also think you have to do other things . Even if its farm related . Bale hay for people if yOu have equipment . Build fences for people .etc.. The leased land works great it's just a pita when you lOse the lease and you have no where to put the cows and the market is down . They also need to be sale barn cows If it's not a long term lease . So you don't lose your butt when you are forced to sell .