Major calving disaster

[Carrie]

Hi all,

Thought I'd run this by you for comments/advice.

Checked on 5 year old easy calver this am. She wasn't due for 12 more days, but had her tail slightly cocked and a good sized strand of mucous. Brought her up to the barn for closer observation. Checked her hourly. Never saw her strain or act like she was pushing. She ate and chewed her cud, but continued to keep her tail up. Finally put her in the chute mid afternoon to palpate her and found 1 foot in the canal and a very foul stench. I was able to bring the other foot around, but never could locate a head or a tail. Was out of my league at this point so I called the vet.

She felt around and said the calf had probably been dead 2 days and was presenting with it's head tucked to the chest under the legs. We worked for hours trying to get it straigtened around to no avail. Embryotomy was impossible because she couldn't snare the head. The cow was obviously in distress and febrile at this point. Vet said a c-section was a death sentence in this type of situation soI wound up putting down one of our best cows. It was dreadful.

Anyone had a similar experience? Did we give up too easily? What else might we have tried?

I'm kicking my self pretty bad tonite.

 

[Sage]

Why was a C-section a problem. I would have tried it if there was a chance of saving the cow, atleast for salvage. I understand with the head down the calf never "pushed" on the birth canal to stimulate the cow to give birth and loosing the calf.

 

[rockridgecattle]

Unfortunately, been there.
We had a drought and poor hay. Fed alot of straw. Vet said for us this contributed to a nasty calving season.
We tried and tried. Did not get the vet because BSE had hit and cattle were worthless. Wish we would have called though. So good for you.
We eventually pulled it. It took a long time. We saved the cow only for her not to breed back. So she went for slaughter.

 

[msscamp]

Anyone had a similar experience? Did we give up too easily? What else might we have tried?

I'm kicking my self pretty bad tonite.

I'm really sorry that this happened to you. No - we've never had a similar experience, but I used to work at a vet clinic, and I'm wondering why the vet didn't/couldn't take the dead calf apart and deliver the pieces? I know how that must sound, and I'm sorry, but I've seen vets do it to many times in these types of scenarious, and I absolutely believe it was an option in your case.

 

[Beefy]

we had one that the calf had died in one time and when we tried to pull it it came out in pieces. that cow had a heck of a time recovering but she did eventually. had a lot of infection to battle--i'm assuming thats what the vet was talking about. she eventually got better and was saleable.

have also had to cut one up before to remove. not good either.

 

[Carrie]

Msscamp,

She tried, but was unable to get a snare around the head. I even tried since my arms were a bit longer. All I could get a hold of was a bit of skin on the neck. Though we were pretty sure it wouldn't help, we finally decided to take the legs off (sorry this is so graphic/gross) but the vet lost the scalpel blade in the leg during the attempt. The next disaster would have been someone getting cut on the blade now lodged in an infected cow, so at that pont, we agreed to call it quits.

The whole thing was a train wreck - start to finish - including when I called the office, the the receptionist sent the vet to the wrong farm (same last name, 25 miles away). The whole night just seemed to get worse. We've had this vet out before and liked her, but not sure I'd use her again.

 

[novatech]

First, if you were going to put the cow down anyway why not try the c-section.
Second I,m with Msscamp on this one. I also worked for a vet. If you had a leg, cut it off. Then keep cutting things off untill you get to the head.I have done this myself for the vet. It is not easy but I haver never seen one that could not be taken apart.
Third, Haveing said this, I was not there so it is hard to second guess a situation.
Sorry for your loss.

 

[rockridgecattle]

sometimes vets are only human and can make mistakes. She probably had a long day, difficult day and or felt real bad she could not save your cow. If she did a good job before, good chance she will again. We all make mistakes.

This might be difficult but figure some costs here.
You put the cow down and lost calf...cost of vet trip and working on the cow

You saved the cow and dead calf...
vet trip, c section, alot of meds for infection, feed for the winter if she makes it. 50/50 chance to breed back.
If going to slaughter extrra feed to get her there for what maybe $500.00
C section alone here is 300.00, meds? feed?

I think she might have saved you some money you could spend else where raising a heifer to replace her or buying one

Just a thought

RR

 

[Carrie]

RR,
That's kind of what I figured last night - plus the potential for human injury with the imbedded scalpel. The risks just seemed to outweight any remotely possible benefits. Still made me cry though. She was one of my favorites. You'd think after 9 years in this business, I'd get tougher.

 

[rockridgecattle]

I don't think we ever get tougher. Part of the job. We just have to look at it differently.
There will be another one that is "the best" you'll see. ;-)

 

[L.A.]

Sometimes doing the right thing is hard.
You did the right thing.
sorry for your loss.

 

[KNERSIE]

First, if you were going to put the cow down anyway why not try the c-section.
Second I,m with Msscamp on this one. I also worked for a vet. If you had a leg, cut it off. Then keep cutting things off untill you get to the head.I have done this myself for the vet. It is not easy but I haver never seen one that could not be taken apart.
Third, Haveing said this, I was not there so it is hard to second guess a situation.
Sorry for your loss.

I am late to chime in on this thread, but it sure sounds like the vet isn't very competent. It is always hard to lose anyone, losing one of the favourites is harder, doesn't matter how long you've been in the business.

 

[dun]

I don't think we ever get tougher. Part of the job.

After many moons of this business, there are still some cows that really hurt when you lose them. The best you can do is look at it as unfortunate and that you did the right thing for the animal. But it really sucks!

 

[Joy of Texas]

Carrie, I am so sorry for your loss. I know it's hard. I lost one of my best cows last year to misdiagnosis . I stop using that vet. I myself don't understand why your vet didn't perform a c-section. But we were not there and don't know all the circumstances.

 

[rockridgecattle]

an on farm c section can be difficult at best. There is so much that can happen from cross contamination. It's not the cleanest enviroments.
Add to that a smelly, dead calf, major bateria to contaminate the insides of a cow if not gotten all out...kind of like a stinky retained placenta!!
Add to that the cow was "ferbile" from what i gather on the internet when googled, distressed, fevred, and something about convulsions...so not sure what ferbile meant here but can't be good.
All the odds were stacked against this cow surviving an expensive procedure, with little or no return. 50/50 breed back or the cost of feed and drugs to get it ready for ship and slaughter.
Chances are the cost would have out weighed the gain netting a loss.
Some times we have to weigh the good, the bad, and the ugly, and then the real ugly. And sometimes the ugly really sucks.

 

[fourstates]

febrile...means has a fever.

 

[Keren]

Carrie, a lot of people will say to you stop thinking about all the things you could have done. Its over and done with, you just have to move on.

I have learnt the hard way that you think about it anyway. You always beat yourself up about it, so do it then move on.

For the record, and so that you or someone else may be able to try something different in a similar situation, yes, we have had something similar.

The cow was a 5 y/o Hford. Calf had been dead for quite a while with no attempt by the cow to deliver. When palpated, the calf was well on its way to be decomposed but still too solid to get out. The vet came out, basically said shoot her. The C section was considered too risky, because of the level of potential infection due to a decomposing, toxic calf. Any sort of wound in the uterus was a likely death sentence. So what I ended up doing was loading her up with antibiotics, and put her in the crush every day for about a week, and fishing out all the bits I could get at. Its not for the faint hearted. It was a helluva lot of work, but she pulled through.

But - I hate to say it, but if the vet had lost a scalpel in the uterus and could not retrieve it, the cow may as well be dead. I dont like to think of what that scalpel could do, but I've seen the damage hooves and teeth can do to a uterus and bowel, and how sick the animal gets. Why oh why didnt your vet have a string on that scalpel? Or use embryotomy wire?

Going just by this story, most would say you need a new vet. But, you are the most accurate judge of her character - if you felt comfortable having her out previously then she is probably a good vet. Just remember vets are people too and make mistakes just like anyone - although somewhere along the way we have got this idea that vets shouldnt do anything wrong. Please dont give her up just for one mistake.

Rockridge, I think the word you are looking for is febrile - having a fever.

Sorry for your loss Carrie.

None of us get any tougher.

 

[Tod Dague]

Had a similar case a few years back. I was talked into having a c-section done. Two weeks and a good bit of time and money later I had to put a bullet in her head. She was already septic from the dead calf, the stress from the c-section, and having spill over of infective fluids into the abdominal cavity were to much for her.

 

[Carrie]

Thanks everyone, for your thoughtful comments and replies. I'm feeling a bit more settled with our decision. I worked in human health care for many years. It's a struggle sometimes to shift gears and consider "putting it down" as an option.

Hope all you fall/winter calvers are having a healthy, fruitful season. We've got quite a few more to go yet. Hopefully the worst is behind us.

I don't post often, but I read almost daily. I'm so grateful to those of you who take the time to help your fellow cattle folks.
You truly are a blessing. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The vet might have known the option Keren pointed out, but weighed the fact the the owner was not able/willing to perform that job, and the cost of vet coming back daily outweighed everything.
Did you salvage the cow for meat? or would that be out of the question with a fever & foul calf???
Yuk - after rereading that question - I think NOT!