Maines & commercial acceptance

[FB-Maines94]

It's safe to say that most members here are commercial cattlemen. After spending hours reading through the posts on these forums, I haven't seen any mention of Maines. It seems that Maines have been pigeonholed into a "show breed." Why is it that they haven't gained commercial acceptance on a large-scale? Personally, I am a fullblood guy. They have the size, milking ability, and muscle among other things.

Thanks

 

[AllForage]

For me as a grass fed guy and/or forage based producer, the three things you listed are not what I want. I have yet to see one with any depth and capacity. If you got pics throw em up.

 

[Taurus]

It's safe to say that most members here are commercial cattlemen. After spending hours reading through the posts on these forums, I haven't seen any mention of Maines. It seems that Maines have been pigeonholed into a "show breed." Why is it that they haven't gained commercial acceptance on a large-scale? Personally, I am a fullblood guy. They have the size, milking ability, and muscle among other things.

Thanks

Honestly I have no idea. I asked the same question few months ago about that. But I think it has do with the color, their large birthweight, their large size and their slow finishing which they also do poorly in feedlots.

 

[ABrauny]

What AllForage said. I want to correct my mistakes not make more of them.

 

[UG]

FB-Maines 94,

It is unfortunate that over the past 30+ years the percentage of Maine breeders that focus on producing seedstock for the commercial industry has decreased, while the percentage of Maine breeders that have emphasized pretty cattle for the show ring has increased. There are some Maine breeders that are producing very functional cattle that really compliment British based cow herds very well. A few that come to mind are Nagels in SD, Holdens in IA, and Forkners in MO.

Over the years I think the Maine-Anjou association hasn't done enough to promote the value of Maine cattle for commercial operations, so consequently, many serious commercial producers now think of the Maine-Anjou breed only as a show breed. I find it interesting that even in many of the commercially focused brochures and magazines that the Maine association has published, emphasizing the benefits of using Maine bulls on commercial cows, several of the pictures still are of show cattle rather than of thick-made Maine bulls in their working clothes in a pasture.

 

[Lucky_P]

Had one client, when I was in veterinary practice, who had Maines - back in the late 1980s. Have never seen any others. They were big cattle - but this was during the era of 9-10+ frame popularity. I'm sure there are some out there that have a place in beef production, but all I ever see are those Maine-Angus-Chianina mixes marketed as 'clubby' sires. Haven't seen one of those that I'd want to use.

Our recent forays into using some Shorthorn sires in our commercial cowherd, indicates that most Shorthorn breeders I've conversed with, who are running their cattle in a commercial/production setting with minimal to no involvement in the showring, seem to shy away from Maine influenced bloodlines - perhaps due to the reasons detailed earlier in this thread, especially large birthweights - but there may also be some 'breed snobbery' of sorts, associated with 'breed purity'. Some of 'em only want 'asterisk-free' cattle.

 

[FB-Maines94]

For me as a grass fed guy and/or forage based producer, the three things you listed are not what I want. I have yet to see one with any depth and capacity. If you got pics throw em up.

She's a show heifer, of course, but she has plenty of thickness.

Also a sire for show cattle but plenty of depth and volume there.

 

[FB-Maines94]

FB-Maines 94,

It is unfortunate that over the past 30+ years the percentage of Maine breeders that focus on producing seedstock for the commercial industry has decreased, while the percentage of Maine breeders that have emphasized pretty cattle for the show ring has increased. There are some Maine breeders that are producing very functional cattle that really compliment British based cow herds very well. A few that come to mind are Nagels in SD, Holdens in IA, and Forkners in MO.

Over the years I think the Maine-Anjou association hasn't done enough to promote the value of Maine cattle for commercial operations, so consequently, many serious commercial producers now think of the Maine-Anjou breed only as a show breed. I find it interesting that even in many of the commercially focused brochures and magazines that the Maine association has published, emphasizing the benefits of using Maine bulls on commercial cows, several of the pictures still are of show cattle rather than of thick-made Maine bulls in their working clothes in a pasture.

Ok, so if Maine breeders hadn't concentrated on show cattle, how could the breed complement commercial herds?

 

[Jake]

Not enough rib shape in those cattle for me to be interested. They aren't giving me anything that I can't find in a package that is more conducive to my goals. Maines are going to have the same battle as shorthorns to get into the mainstream commercial herds. Takes a long time to change the decades of perception that has been made against them.

 

[FB-Maines94]

Not enough rib shape in those cattle for me to be interested. They aren't giving me anything that I can't find in a package that is more conducive to my goals. Maines are going to have the same battle as shorthorns to get into the mainstream commercial herds. Takes a long time to change the decades of perception that has been made against them.

So commercial ranchers are looking for barrel-ribbed cattle?

 

[Jake]

Not enough rib shape in those cattle for me to be interested. They aren't giving me anything that I can't find in a package that is more conducive to my goals. Maines are going to have the same battle as shorthorns to get into the mainstream commercial herds. Takes a long time to change the decades of perception that has been made against them.

So commercial ranchers are looking for barrel-ribbed cattle?

Higher barrel capacity goes hand in hand with cattle that are more efficient on strictly forage diets. In my experience with mostly show bred maines their natural fleshing ability is far too poor to work in the majority of commercial operations. I personally dont' believe that they will give you enough growth to counteract the need for higher inputs. With the majority of the breed focusing on the showring maines have lost a lot of generations on the goal of efficiently and profitably producing beef.

 

[Aaron]

I've heard them referred to as 'gutless Shorthorns'. No one has ever raised them around here and it's 100% based on colour. The red and white marking will be labeled as Shorthorn and receive the greatest dockage at the sales barns. Same thing with Pinzgauers. That being said, no one raises Shorthorns locally, and the only ones that have it in their herds are the 70+ year oldtimers.

 

[Cabo]

What Jake and others said plus they are not what about half or more of the country wants, black.

 

[UG]

FB-Maines 94,

It is unfortunate that over the past 30+ years the percentage of Maine breeders that focus on producing seedstock for the commercial industry has decreased, while the percentage of Maine breeders that have emphasized pretty cattle for the show ring has increased. There are some Maine breeders that are producing very functional cattle that really compliment British based cow herds very well. A few that come to mind are Nagels in SD, Holdens in IA, and Forkners in MO.

Over the years I think the Maine-Anjou association hasn't done enough to promote the value of Maine cattle for commercial operations, so consequently, many serious commercial producers now think of the Maine-Anjou breed only as a show breed. I find it interesting that even in many of the commercially focused brochures and magazines that the Maine association has published, emphasizing the benefits of using Maine bulls on commercial cows, several of the pictures still are of show cattle rather than of thick-made Maine bulls in their working clothes in a pasture.

Ok, so if Maine breeders hadn't concentrated on show cattle, how could the breed complement commercial herds?

Good Maine-Anjou cattle (those developed for commercial production, not the show ring) when bred to British-based cattle will result in calves with more growth and muscle than their British parents. The Maine-influenced females in general are good milkers and consequently often wean heavier calves than the straight British cows. The challenge for Maine breeders is differentiating your breed and breeding program from similar type Continental breeds like Gelbvieh, Simmental, and Braunvieh that offer similar advantages.

 

[houstoncutter]

Maines bring three things to the table. Frame, color and milking ability, the first two a commercial cattlemen dont need. When I look at the bull you posted, I see a show steer with nuts. A bull should have a massive crest, nuts guts and butts and muscle. Things that in the show ring are frowned on because they say the bull looks coarse.

 

[FB-Maines94]

Maines bring three things to the table. Frame, color and milking ability, the first two a commercial cattlemen dont need. When I look at the bull you posted, I see a show steer with nuts. A bull should have a massive crest, nuts guts and butts and muscle. Things that in the show ring are frowned on because they say the bull looks coarse.

So basically, the bull doesn't need to be refined... only massive?

 

[houstoncutter]

Maines bring three things to the table. Frame, color and milking ability, the first two a commercial cattlemen dont need. When I look at the bull you posted, I see a show steer with nuts. A bull should have a massive crest, nuts guts and butts and muscle. Things that in the show ring are frowned on because they say the bull looks coarse.

So basically, the bull doesn't need to be refined... only massive?[/quote


Bull doesnt have to massive in size, but if he is massive in all these traits you have a bull thats offspring will ring the bell for a commercial breeder. I liked the early fullblood Maines alot, and Im talking about before Cunia. The ones I see today are watered down versions of the early bulls. Dont take this hard because I bust the Limousin breeders for their same watered down stock.

If you want to know what a Limousin or Maine bulls is supposed to look like, look up the full French bulls. Somehow we in American agriculture think we need to change what Mother Nature produced over a thousands years. It is a shame what has been done to some breeds.

 

[FB-Maines94]

Bull doesnt have to massive in size, but if he is massive in all these traits you have a bull thats offspring will ring the bell for a commercial breeder. I liked the early fullblood Maines alot, and Im talking about before Cunia. The ones I see today are watered down versions of the early bulls. Dont take this hard because I bust the Limousin breeders for their same watered down stock.

If you want to know what a Limousin or Maine bulls is supposed to look like, look up the full French bulls. Somehow we in American agriculture think we need to change what Mother Nature produced over a thousands years. It is a shame what has been done to some breeds.

My grandpa actually has a 1977 Maine-Anjou Herd Sire Directory that I have spent hours pouring over. It has pictures of most of the French import bulls. Covino 3, Cunia, Epinal, Caqui, Prairie Bilzzard, Iabon, etc. It's absolutely fascinating to look through it. He also has a collection of old Voice magazines, which is published by the Maine association. The style change is distinct. The heifers back in the 80's had their butts in the air, and the taller your bull, the better.

Anyway, to let you know where I'm coming from... I've come to appreciate moderate-framed cattle with easy fleshing ability, plenty of thickness and plenty of milk. Obviously, from what I've learned, the more beef on 'em, the better.

 

[cow pollinater]

A few factors that I see working against you.
1. color
2. Maines are big framey cattle but based on across breed adjustment they are NOT faster growing to get to that size. Why would I slow down the growth and add mature size at the same time?
3. Availability. Alot of breeds that I really like are a no-go for me because I can't get enough bulls to make it sustainable in a consistant cross-breeding situation. I not only need at least three bulls of a breed at a time, I need to know that I'm going to be able to find more like them to keep the cross going when a bull fails or I choose to keep the cross going in the future.
4. Competition. there are alot of breeds that complement my cowherd and a few of them are readily availableto me and most of them bring more to the table than a maine will.

 

[u4411clb]

Maines are in the same boat with other Continental breeds they are just a little later coming to the party. The Maines have a hard time in the present cattle industry in the US. Due to color and size and late maturity. But just like other continentals if you make the breed close enough to Angus and incorporate Angus characteristics the more it will be accepted.There are homo black and homo polled Maines that are far more acceptable in the industry and you also have the Maintainer which is a percentage Angus and percentage Maine similar to Simangus, LimFlex, Chiangus or Balancer. The problem like the previous poster said is going to be availability and depth of gene pool. There are pockets or areas in the US that people swear by Chiangus usually those pockets are near by a large Chiangus breeder like Tennesse or South Dakota. There are going to be pockets close to Iowa where the larger Maine breeders are that people will swear by them as well because they have access to the cattle. The problem is going to be for wide acceptance is why choose a black Maine when a person can pick a black Simmental or a black Limosuine or a black Gelbveih that people are more accepting of and the gene pool is bigger. Or why drive half way around the earth for a Maintainer when you can get a Balancer, LimFlex, or Simangus in your local area. There really I hate to say it not a dimes worth of difference in them all the difference is the quality that you have available to you as a buyer not the breed. The same issues people are saying about 100% Maines can be said about almost every Continental breed so Maines are really no better or worse just late really.