Lutylase, how long after breeding?

[Alan]

These days I spend much of my time on this site, lurking and searching different things, as well as admiring some of the great looking Herefords being posted lately.

This morning, while doing a search I ran into some topics about lutylase and the use for aborting calves in young heifers. First off, no I don't want to abort any of my heifers, but became curious to how long after a heifer gets bred can you safley abort the calf?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[KNERSIE]

The Lutalyse won't work untill there is a CL of pregnancy to degenerate, so you'd usually wait 7 days. The sooner after the initial 7 days the better, but I remember reading that anytime in the first 150 days it can be done with safety, I wouldn't recommend waiting that long though to limit damage to the reproductive tract and avoid other complications.

 

[milkmaid]

As Knersie said, giving Lute any earlier than 7 days past heat would be pointless as there's no CL.

After 100 days it's hard to abort a calf... I think around that age or a little beyond the placenta starts producing progesterone (same hormone the CL produces), and so even if you destroy the CL with Lute, it still won't terminate the pregnancy. I personally wouldn't abort a cow past 60 days pregnancy; beyond that and the calf becomes big enough it can cause serious damage to the cervix on the way out. Except in the case of feedlot heifers there'd be no point in doing something that might potentially prevent rebreeding.

 

[KNERSIE]

As Knersie said, giving Lute any earlier than 7 days past heat would be pointless as there's no CL.

After 100 days it's hard to abort a calf... I think around that age or a little beyond the placenta starts producing progesterone (same hormone the CL produces), and so even if you destroy the CL with Lute, it still won't terminate the pregnancy. I personally wouldn't abort a cow past 60 days pregnancy; beyond that and the calf becomes big enough it can cause serious damage to the cervix on the way out. Except in the case of feedlot heifers there'd be no point in doing something that might potentially prevent rebreeding.

Estrumate can be used to terminate a pregnancy up till 5 months bred. This is from the Schering Plough Estrumate website

Pregnancies from Mismating
Unwanted pregnancies can be safely and efficiently terminated from 1 week after mating until about 5 months of gestation. The induced abortion is normally uncomplicated and the fetus and placenta are usually expelled about 4 to 5 days after the injection with the reproductive tract returning to normal soon after the abortion. The ability of Estrumate to induce abortion decreases beyond the fifth month of gestation while the risk of dystocia and its consequences increases. Estrumate has not been sufficiently tested under feedlot conditions; therefore, recommendations cannot be made for its use in heifers placed in feedlots.

 

[milkmaid]

Sometimes one has to give several shots though before a 2nd trimester cow will abort.

I think Estrumate has a 3 hour half-life, versus Lutalyse which has about a 3 minute half-life. Might explain why Estrumate is labeled for cows up to 5 months, whereas the label on Lute says 100 days.

 

[hillsdown]

Prostaglandin (ie estrumate) to work properly should be given at least 10-13 days after known breeding.

To abort safely and accurately the following applies:

1-3 months estrumate

3-6 months estrumate and dexamethasone

6-9 months dexamethasone

Now keep in mind that estrumate ( prostaglandin) or any GNRH is only 96% accurate even when used properly..

A note for all of those that flush cows for embryos please do two sessions of prostaglandin & Gnrh (cystic) as it is not always a successful dissolution of embryos left in the cow.

Yes personal experience, lost a very good flush cow due to four embryos left in her after flushing ,the estrumate did not work on her but did on the other 4 that were flushed. Learned a very expensive lesson to pay way more attention to your flush cows coming into heat after flushing.

Using Dex with estrumate at that age makes it safer for the female, as less damage to the uterine (tract) occurs, however unless absolutely I necessary due not like to abort after 4-4&1/2 months but sometimes one has no other option.

JM2cents.....

Edited ,thanks Dun .
I forgot to put in prostaglandin and switched the two by accident in my first sentence....oops please forgive.....
,,, haying thus far has been a real @#$@% so my mind is a little scattered..
I hope this clarified my faux pas' ...????

 

[KNERSIE]

Good info hillsdown, thanks.

 

[dun]

Gnrh to work properly should be given at least 10-13 days after known breeding.

To abort safely and accurately the following applies:

1-3 months estrumate

3-6 months estrumate and dexamethasone

6-9 months dexamethasone

Now keep in mind that estrumate or any GNRH is only 96% accurate even when used properly..

A note for all of those that flush cows for embryos please do two sessions of Gnrh as it is not always a successful dissolution of embryos left in the cow.

Yes personal experience, lost a very good flush cow due to four embryos left in her after flushing ,the estrumate did not work on her but did on the other 4 that were flushed. Learned a very expensive lesson to pay way more attention to your flush cows coming into heat after flushing.

Using Dex with estrumate at that age makes it safer for the female, as less damage to the uterine (tract) occurs, however unless absolutely I necessary due not like to abort after 4-4&1/2 months but sometimes one has no other option.

JM2cents.....

Why are you talking about GnRH and PGF2 (estramate) as having the same affect?

 

[dthompson]

Guys,

Please try not to use lutalyse i know some people who use it all the time and it works but where i work we used it for a test run and we got the aborted calves we wanted and alot of problems with it, I.e breeched calves, dead calves, calves getting stuck, we did have some calves come out almost full term and still live, and then we have the cows some died within 2 - 3 days of having the injection. so if i may and i know some might tell me to Push off i would like to say be very careful when using Lutalyse i dont like it at all

cheers

Damien

 

[Stocker Steve]

Prostaglandin (ie estrumate) to work properly should be given at least 10-13 days after known breeding.

To abort safely and accurately the following applies:

1-3 months estrumate

3-6 months estrumate and dexamethasone

6-9 months dexamethasone

Now keep in mind that estrumate ( prostaglandin) or any GNRH is only 96% accurate even when used properly..

* I have only had a 60 to 80% abortion rate with estrumate only on 3 month bred heifers. Vet thought one shot would do it but he was wrong. *

 

[milkmaid]

dthompson -- Good grief, what are you using it on? Third-trimester cows? if so, no wonder you're having problems. The rest of us are talking about using Lute on very short bred cows where the calf is still the size of a pencil eraser.

 

[dthompson]

Hey Milkmaid,

i wish i could say that it was my own stupid fault but i cant blame the bosses i read up about it and it said to use within 3 months of conception, and not between 4 and 7 months so anyway we dont know how far along the cattle are as it is a feedlot and well we end up with everything, but like i said it isnt my say i just copped all the work involved after the injections.

cheers

 

[KNERSIE]

Hey Milkmaid,

i wish i could say that it was my own stupid fault but i cant blame the bosses i read up about it and it said to use within 3 months of conception, and not between 4 and 7 months so anyway we dont know how far along the cattle are as it is a feedlot and well we end up with everything, but like i said it isnt my say i just copped all the work involved after the injections.

cheers

I thought the golden rule was to always palpate before injecting pgf2. (unless its 7 month old heifers just weaned and the shot given as standard procedure)

BTW do you buy cattle of all ages for the feedlot?

 

[hillsdown]

Hey Milkmaid,

i wish i could say that it was my own stupid fault but i cant blame the bosses i read up about it and it said to use within 3 months of conception, and not between 4 and 7 months so anyway we dont know how far along the cattle are as it is a feedlot and well we end up with everything, but like i said it isnt my say i just copped all the work involved after the injections.

cheers

In that situation you are kind of darned if you do/don't ..
Do you have a vet palpate or is that just to cost prohibitive.

That should be a heads up to all that sell calves to give a shot of prostaglandin at weening just in case, and those that do should get a premium for their animals as it saves the next man a lot of expense and injury.

 

[dthompson]

Hey all,

yeah the buyers dont tell us what they are buying untill the cattle are about 3 hrs or less from us at the feedlot, so when they arrive if they are heifers we have to give them a shot of Lutalyse( we have stopped it now as i got really cranky about it and complained that we are losing way to many heifers when we shouldnt be loosing any at all ) ( damn Bosses) anyways we do get cattle of all ages youngest is probably nine months old and oldest we have had is 3 yr old bulls i do not know why they bought bulls but they did and i wont complain we need the numbers but still.

have a good days guys