Lowering the cell to 400,000?

[GMN]

I heard a nibbling of this from my fieldman via a email, he came out and we talked about this, they want to lower the cell count from 750,000 to 400,000 for the main reason to export more milk to the European market, as that is what Europe's cell limit is. Honestly i think, 400,000 is kind of low. Every year this comes up to lower it, and every year it gets rejected, but I really think that could be a problem for many, as we all know that things happen, cell issues arent always predictable. Anyways my fieldman didn't have alot of answers to my questions, but just curious to what other dairy people think of this?

GMN

 

[kickinbull]

GMN
I agree with you, they should just leave it alone. The fieldman told me that this year has been real bad for everyone for high SCC and water. They don't understand it, it's just here. We've had too much rain followed by drought. And the temps have been higher than normal for a longer time. We are on county water and we've used more this year than ever. We keep on eye on cell numbers, and do what we can to keep them as low as possible. But sometimes it's nice to have that extra room for "things" that just happen.

 

[bigbull338]

if they lower the SCC its a ploy to get more dairies to sell out because they wont/cant keep their sccs down.going down to 400,000 is pushing it hard.thus making it unprofitable to keep any problem cows.an also making it not worth dr for mastitis.an shipp them right off.

 

[novaman]

Well I'm probably in the minority but I like this move. This puts the US in a better position to be more competitive internationally as most countries are already at a 400 limit. I will agree that it is nice having some "wiggle" room should something happen but lets get real, 750 is way too high. The 400 limit is a 3-month rolling average so if you are doing a good job and have one or two bad pickups they should get smoothed over. I don't believe this is a move to try and weed out producers. It is a move that has been talked about for years and we just have to bite the bullet. It is for the better of the industry and PR. I believe that rather than taking out producers, this move will simply be the motivation to be better managers. The problem cows need to be removed rather than kept around. Dry treating and proper milking procedures will go a long way in keeping counts down.

 

[TexasBred]

Refusing to remove a cow from the herd with a high SCC count to me is basically a poor management decision. Old "Somatic Sally" needs to go. Sometimes it may only be a very few cows who are driving the entire herd average high. I've seen individual cattle test over 2 million SCC yet the owner would not remove her because she was a pretty good milker. I say "How can you afford NOT to get her out of the tank" or even the farm. A 200-250,000 cell count is not that hard to reach even in a big herd with proper management practices in place and pays a pretty nice premium. 400,000 should be a walk in the park.

 

[GMN]

Well I'm probably in the minority but I like this move. This puts the US in a better position to be more competitive internationally as most countries are already at a 400 limit. I will agree that it is nice having some "wiggle" room should something happen but lets get real, 750 is way too high. The 400 limit is a 3-month rolling average so if you are doing a good job and have one or two bad pickups they should get smoothed over. I don't believe this is a move to try and weed out producers. It is a move that has been talked about for years and we just have to bite the bullet. It is for the better of the industry and PR. I believe that rather than taking out producers, this move will simply be the motivation to be better managers. The problem cows need to be removed rather than kept around. Dry treating and proper milking procedures will go a long way in keeping counts down.

Its all about perception in the market-do people really buy milk because the cell count is low? Do they even know what a cell count is? Don't think so, this is all the big milk companies wanting to push this so THEY can make more money, and then come up with excuses as to why we don't get paid more for our milk.
I dont think 750,000 is too high, but I do think 400,000 is too low.

GMN

 

[TexasBred]

GMN, there is at least one milk plant in Texas (Blue Bell) that I guarantee they will absolutely not accept milk with a high SCC. They also will not accept milk with a high bacteria count, low protein or low butterfat. Needless to say the haulers sent them only the milk from the very best dairies. I'm sure Blue Bell probably pays a premium for this milk but it's also an honor to know you're milk is being purchased by them.

 

[cow pollinater]

After the roller coaster milk price ride that we've gotten used to, letting the bad producers fail would be a God-send for everyone that is doing it right...
Funny how with cows most of us can see when the pasture is overgrazed and it's time to thin out the worst even if they're good but when its people competing for our marketshare we hate to see them go... I say raise the bar and let the bad ones fail.

 

[TexasBred]

After the roller coaster milk price ride that we've gotten used to, letting the bad producers fail would be a God-send for everyone that is doing it right...
Funny how with cows most of us can see when the pasture is overgrazed and it's time to thin out the worst even if they're good but when its people competing for our marketshare we hate to see them go... I say raise the bar and let the bad ones fail.

I agree....have always said that from time to time you need to weed out the wanna be dairymen that give everyone else a black eye. More times than not their demise goes back to management decisions....or lack of them.

 

[dun]

After the roller coaster milk price ride that we've gotten used to, letting the bad producers fail would be a God-send for everyone that is doing it right...
Funny how with cows most of us can see when the pasture is overgrazed and it's time to thin out the worst even if they're good but when its people competing for our marketshare we hate to see them go... I say raise the bar and let the bad ones fail.

I agree....have always said that from time to time you need to weed out the wanna be dairymen that give everyone else a black eye. More times than not their demise goes back to management decisions....or lack of them.

When I was the local DHIA tech I categorized the poeple aorund here as, Dairymen, cow milkers, people that own Holsteins. All of the dairymen are still in business, the others have been replaced with others of the same kind that they were.

 

[novaman]

Its all about perception in the market-do people really buy milk because the cell count is low? Do they even know what a cell count is?

Consumers are becoming more and more aware of what cell counts are. They may not understand what it is but they know it is not desirable.

Don't think so, this is all the big milk companies wanting to push this so THEY can make more money, and then come up with excuses as to why we don't get paid more for our milk.

I can't say whether the processors will make more money as I don't know their end of the business. What I do know is we can't be shutting out our markets because we aren't willing to meet their quality demands and a 400 SCC is not a tough demand to meet. I have heard no excuses as to why we don't get paid more for the milk we produce. In fact I am surprised prices are as good as they have been lately. There are more bearish signals than bullish. I do make more money by keeping SCC lower though. I get paid a premium as well as the added bonus of getting better production out of the cows.

I dont think 750,000 is too high, but I do think 400,000 is too low.

I don't want to argue with you as that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, with that argument it leads me to believe that you do have concerns about meeting the requirements. There are many things that can be done to lower SCC. Trust me I took over a herd that was flirting with the 750 limit quite regularly. I figured it was a lost cause and the only way to get it down would be to replace replace replace. After a couple years of changes, without replacing, I am running right at 100 and I see room for improvements still.

 

[bigbull338]

yall just opened up a can of worms on the SCC talk.if you think they wont weedout certain producers on SCC counts your wrong.the milk haulers can an will play with the samples.theyll switch a dairy sample that is low with their fav dairy that maybe running over the limit.just to keep them from being cut off.then theyll give you the high 1 an youll get cut off.

 

[TexasBred]

yall just opened up a can of worms on the SCC talk.if you think they wont weedout certain producers on SCC counts your wrong.the milk haulers can an will play with the samples.theyll switch a dairy sample that is low with their fav dairy that maybe running over the limit.just to keep them from being cut off.then theyll give you the high 1 an youll get cut off.

I guess you can accuse the haulers of about anything but no way to prove it. You can blame anyone for your problems. One bad test won't do anything but raise your average a few points...not get you cut of or placed "off grade". Drivers typically pull 3 samples from each milk tank at each dairy. The sample that goes to the state determines if you go off grade,(if memory serves me right) not the one used by the milk plant nor the one that goes to the coop lab and the driver has no way to know who gets what sample. These are the least of worries at a well managed dairy operation.

 

[bigbull338]

well it can an does happen,just like watering down milk happens.an your right the haulers wont get caught at it.because if they do its a big nasty mess.just like a hauler will know you wont get paid for a months milk but comes an picks your milk up on the morning that they come out an tell you that your milk co filed bankruptcy.my dad unloaded on the hauler pretty good that morning.an they told him he could sign with AMPI or MIDAM.an he told them he would sign with MIDAM because he wouldnt go with AMPI anytime.

 

[novaman]

yall just opened up a can of worms on the SCC talk.if you think they wont weedout certain producers on SCC counts your wrong.the milk haulers can an will play with the samples.theyll switch a dairy sample that is low with their fav dairy that maybe running over the limit.just to keep them from being cut off.then theyll give you the high 1 an youll get cut off.

I guess it helps to have a good relationship with your field man in these types of cases. My field man knows where my numbers typically run and if there is a sample that comes back out of line with what I've been getting he will call me and see if there seem to be problems. If I don't have anything suspicious on my end he will start investigating haulers to find the problem. Often he will have me pull a seperate sample and send it in as an individual cow sample just to double check the haulers samples.

 

[GMN]

All i got to say to all of you is that it must be so nice to be so perfect! Yah I have struggled every now and then with my cell count-who hasn't? Right now I'm not sruggling as I culled out alot of my older cows, but I hate to do that, as they can make money even without being in the tank, by having calves, and I would keep them for just that if I could.
Its sad that some of you consider someone who has over a 400,000 scc to be a bad dairy producer-ya know whatever-think what you like. I have known people who during the mud season have had to take out 16 cows to meet the state limits, and I don't consider them to be bad producers or bad managers.
I got a great milkman, he's been with me since i started, and I got a good fieldman. i may not always agree with everything my fieldman says, but I still think good of him.
i do think us dairy producers are under alot of stress already, milk prices may be higher now, but its gonna take time to recover from last year, throw in the rising cost of feed, and everything else on the farm, no I don't think lowering the cell limits is a good thing right now.

GMN

 

[GMN]

GMN, there is at least one milk plant in Texas (Blue Bell) that I guarantee they will absolutely not accept milk with a high SCC. They also will not accept milk with a high bacteria count, low protein or low butterfat. Needless to say the haulers sent them only the milk from the very best dairies. I'm sure Blue Bell probably pays a premium for this milk but it's also an honor to know you're milk is being purchased by them.

There are a few that I know of that have set rquirements from DFA that won't accept any milk for their stores that has a cell higher than 200,000 and no hormones, and well PI is pretty standard low in the industry already, DFA changed all those limits last year-nothing new there.

i wonder if the dairies that milk goes to Blue Bell do they actually see the higher payment or is that only seen my their milk company, then passed down to the producer?

GMN

 

[GMN]

yall just opened up a can of worms on the SCC talk.if you think they wont weedout certain producers on SCC counts your wrong.the milk haulers can an will play with the samples.theyll switch a dairy sample that is low with their fav dairy that maybe running over the limit.just to keep them from being cut off.then theyll give you the high 1 an youll get cut off.

I know of a few producers who do get special treatment, get taken off of federal surveys, etc.. not sure about switching samples, I know my milkman would not do that.

GMN

 

[regolith]

A 200-250,000 cell count is not that hard to reach even in a big herd with proper management practices in place and pays a pretty nice premium. 400,000 should be a walk in the park.

I agree.
Fonterra currently has a 400,000 limit. A few years ago they had a ten-day rolling average, so if the cell count bounced over 400K once or twice in those ten days you were generally okay. Now a single milk collection over 400,000 will get you penalised.

A single cow with mastitis in a small herd can put you over the limit - about the only time that's a concern for me is at the very start and end of the dairying season when there are low numbers in the herd. With an average of 100 - 130 K during the season I've never hit 400K on a single collection, but back when I was managing farms that were averaging 250 - 300K the threshhold would be hit four or five times a year (and on both farms I halved the average (and also the risk of reaching the upper limit) in my first year of management but, being a little more experienced now, I know there are farms around where that sort of improvement can't be achieved).
It does take ongoing effort. Every milking, two seconds to glance at the milk filter, another 2 seconds to read the SCC result every collection - then if there is indication of a cow with mastitis every cow in the herd must be checked (remembering that normal throughput in a NZ dairy is around 200 cows/hour).

I don't have big issues with individual cows. Recommendations are that any cow treated for mastitis 3 or more times in one year be culled. I don't think I've *ever* treated a cow that often - twice and she has greatly disappointed me and probably earned a place on the cull list. The primary causes of mastitis are completely different in this country though.

GMN: is milking your high SCC cows last, to feed calves, a possibility for you?

 

[TexasBred]

GMN, there is at least one milk plant in Texas (Blue Bell) that I guarantee they will absolutely not accept milk with a high SCC. They also will not accept milk with a high bacteria count, low protein or low butterfat. Needless to say the haulers sent them only the milk from the very best dairies. I'm sure Blue Bell probably pays a premium for this milk but it's also an honor to know you're milk is being purchased by them.

There are a few that I know of that have set rquirements from DFA that won't accept any milk for their stores that has a cell higher than 200,000 and no hormones, and well PI is pretty standard low in the industry already, DFA changed all those limits last year-nothing new there.

i wonder if the dairies that milk goes to Blue Bell do they actually see the higher payment or is that only seen my their milk company, then passed down to the producer?

GMN

Now you know the coop keeps that extra money. lolol. And dairies 10 miles from BlueBNell probably pay the same hauling rate as those 200 miles from Bluebell.