Lousy Day

[donnaIL]

It seems like I been having some bad luck lately :mad: Yesterday evening when I got home one of our 2006 heifers 16 1/2 months old (Jewel) had a broken leg. She was in heat and I guess her and the bull were in the barn and who knows what happened (kicking or tripping up on the feed bowls??) leg broken in 2 places above the knee.

I had recently taken a couple of pictures of her.. the first on the 11th and the second on Monday. Really kinda disapointing as is the first heifer that we have bred and raised. She was a nice to look at animal but in every picture I took she looked post legged. Could this have had anything to do with the leg breaking or is it just a freak thing?

She's in the freezer tonight...one side weighted 263 (so she weighted about 850), the other side isn't hanging cz they had to cut the injured leg and so nothing to hang from. The regular slaughter beef day at the processor is Thursday and so the regular people not there. We have put other heifers same size with the bull with no problems...Anyway just a lousy day :

Donna

 

[Alice]

Aw, Donna, that's awful. I'm sorry...

Alice

 

[Sir Loin]

Donna,

My condolences on your loss.

There is no easy way to say this, but from your pic, IMO your bull was too big for that heifer.
Sorry :(
SL

 

[donnaIL]

Donna,

My condolences on your loss.

There is no easy way to say this, but from your pic, IMO your bull was too big for that heifer.
Sorry :(
SL

Thank you Sir Loin.

Are you saying that the bull broke her leg by breeding or trying too? This bull has bred two other heifers her size (I think maybe smaller) with no problems. She was well grown out to sizes that I have read are acceptable for breeding. I know that some folks buy special young bulls for their heifers

I did post the picture of her with the bull to get opinions, so thanks for your opinion. I may rethink the size of our next bull...this one will be going soon as his daughters are on the ground. I was really interested if you think by being post legged if it could affect the breaking of the leg when being bred. Donna

 

[Sir Loin]

Donna,
Re:

Are you saying that the bull broke her leg by breeding or trying too?

Yes. But with a caveat.

This bull has bred two other heifers her size (I think maybe smaller) with no problems.

I can believe that, but probable under different circumstances. (outside)

Let me put this as delicately as I can.
What I am visualizing is her being trapped in a corner in the barn with no avenue of escape.
When she is mounted she can not move forward or to either side, which would be the normal thing for her to do.
In essence she had no control over what was going on. Which under normal and outside conditions she would.
Now her only choice is to go down under his weight, or be forced down under his weight. And because she is so much smaller then him, he is not ?????? as vertical to her as he should be, but instead is more in a horizontal position with her, causing her to hold up even more of his weight. (does that make sense to you?)
Let me try it again this way.
When a cow and bull of equal size breed only about 30% (unscientific) of the bull’s weight is transferred to the cow. The remainder of 70% is retained by the bulls rear legs.
From your pic IMO about 70%, or more, of the bull’s weight was transferred to your heifer when he mounted and made his final thrust.
It is at this time, as she could not move forward to get away from him, that I believe she collapsed under his weight and received her first break. The second break was probably caused by him stepping on her leg while climbing off her.

As a foot note:
I would keep a close eye on your bull for a broken tool. It is almost always during breeding when either the cow or bull, or both, go down that an injury to the bull occurs.
Hope this helps
SL
HO I forgot this.

I was really interested if you think by being post legged if it could affect the breaking of the leg when being bred.

Short answer: No, I think the confinement was the real cause.
Had she been able to do her normal part in the procedure she probably would have breed just fine.
And: depth of penetration may have played a part in it also, but I won’t go there and risk being called a pervert again.

 

[larryshoat]

Obviously well cared for! Sorry for the bad luck.

Larry

 

[ArrowHBrand]

This is really hits home because we have a first calf heifer that looks exactly like yours and her name is Jewel too, no lie. Yeah that boy does seem a little big for heifers. My SIL's FIL had a Char bull break a cows back a couple of summers ago. He went to the sale barn the next week.

 

[donnaIL]

Donna,
(does that make sense to you?)

It is certainly something to think about.

Let me try it again this way.
When a cow and bull of equal size breed only about 30% (unscientific) of the bull’s weight is transferred to the cow. The remainder of 70% is retained by the bulls rear legs.
From your pic IMO about 70%, or more, of the bull’s weight was transferred to your heifer when he mounted and made his final thrust.

Again this is an interesting possibility.

It is at this time, as she could not move forward to get away from him, that I believe she collapsed under his weight and received her first break. The second break was probably caused by him stepping on her leg while climbing off her.


As a foot note:
I would keep a close eye on your bull for a broken tool. It is almost always during breeding when either the cow or bull, or both, go down that an injury to the bull occurs.

His tool appears to be fine, it looked as if another cow could be in heat.

Hope this helps
SL

I am evaluating the situation, thanks for your comments.

Short answer: No, I think the confinement was the real cause.
Had she been able to do her normal part in the procedure she probably would have breed just fine.

I agree and think that it was a freak accident because the bull confined her to the barn. I kinda have my own idea because of where she was found that perhaps she kicked or tangled in coral panels or slipped in the feed troughs.

thanks again for your input. Donna

 

[donnaIL]

Obviously well cared for! Sorry for the bad luck.

Larry

Thanks Larry

 

[donnaIL]

This is really hits home because we have a first calf heifer that looks exactly like yours and her name is Jewel too, no lie. Yeah that boy does seem a little big for heifers. My SIL's FIL had a Char bull break a cows back a couple of summers ago. He went to the sale barn the next week.

I hope you have better luck than us. I've heard of bulls breaking cows backs -- not legs, and because I used him on some heifers in the last year I did not forsee this accident. Would love to see a picture of your Jewel. Donna

 

[Beefy]

i think she got her leg snapped in a panel. that sucks.

i doubt the postleggedness had anything to do with the break.

(i dont think the bull is too big for the heifer unless he is just really an overly aggressive breeder)

 

[fourstates]

darn shame. Sorry for your loss.

 

[Chris H]

Well, I'm going against the majority so far.
I think the straight leg contributed to it breaking. I'd agree she was probably cornered and went down as she tried to get away and he mounted. The straightness of her hocks could have helped break her leg instead of maybe flexing underneath her.
Who knows for sure, stuff happens. I will say I've seen large, agile bulls who are lighter on the cow than smaller, clumsy bulls that use the cow to support their weight while they think about what they're supposed to do next.

 

[sidney411]

I would tend to agree with SirLoin with the situation. Why were they locked in a barn together? I've got a 7 yr old cow that has a broken hip (per vet) I have no idea if the bull caused the injury breeding her or if something happened in the pasture. Just like you, we will never know for sure. It is strange that there were two breaks up high like that though. If the bull stepped on her after she went down I would think that injury would be below the knee. JMO.

 

[KNERSIE]

Although being post legged could certainly play a role in that she possible couldn't support the bull's weight, I doubt that is the cause of the break. I agree with sirloin that the heifer probably slipped on the barn floor and went down with the bull on top of her.

If the bull was postlegged, I would understand, because a postlegged bull lacks the natural flex in the hindlegs and tend to rely more on the cow or heifer to support him while breeding. They are typically also clumsy in the last thrust when ejaculating and the hocks hyperextend pushing the bull forwards instead of upwards. Add a slippery floor or a heifer with structural problems in the hind legs and these type of accidents won't stay freak accidents.

All this being said, shite happens form time to time, even when everything seemed perfect.

What is the breeding of the bull?

 

[grannysoo]

Sorry for your loss, but at least your freezer was happy to get fed......

Great looking cows, but that bull does look a little large for her.

 

[peg4x4]

A real shame,nice looking cattle... Crapp happens,no matter how careful we are.. Sorry for your loss..

 

[donnaIL]

I would tend to agree with SirLoin with the situation. Why were they locked in a barn together? I've got a 7 yr old cow that has a broken hip (per vet) I have no idea if the bull caused the injury breeding her or if something happened in the pasture. Just like you, we will never know for sure. It is strange that there were two breaks up high like that though. If the bull stepped on her after she went down I would think that injury would be below the knee. JMO.

First of all they were not locked in the barn together....I think what sirloin was saying was that the bull had her confined there. When we saw the break it we could only tell it was broken above the knee the leg dangled, I do not think it was hig on the leg just above the hock/joint . It is possible the second break happened transporting her to the processing plant??? My son said he saw that it was broken in to places and the bone was protuding then.

 

[donnaIL]

Although being post legged could certainly play a role in that she possible couldn't support the bull's weight, I doubt that is the cause of the break. I agree with sirloin that the heifer probably slipped on the barn floor and went down with the bull on top of her.

If the bull was postlegged, I would understand, because a postlegged bull lacks the natural flex in the hindlegs and tend to rely more on the cow or heifer to support him while breeding. They are typically also clumsy in the last thrust when ejaculating and the hocks hyperextend pushing the bull forwards instead of upwards. Add a slippery floor or a heifer with structural problems in the hind legs and these type of accidents won't stay freak accidents.

All this being said, shite happens form time to time, even when everything seemed perfect.

What is the breeding of the bull?

The barn floor is dirt and because we have been in a drought it is pretty hard and not slippery. However we do have coral panels/ cattle panels and feed troughs on one wall, I was the one who thought she may have tripped up on the troughs or kicked at the panel.

The bull is out of a cross bred cow (1/2 angus) that we really like, we believe her mother to be simintal (sp?) and his sire was Ankonian Union (angus). This cow has had 5 bulls in the last 5 years and is 7 yrs old...we wanted some of her gene pool in our herd and we did get some nice heifers this year.

 

[donnaIL]

That bull in my opinion was definitely to large to be breeding such a small framed heifer. 850 pounds at 16 and half months old is not very good growth at all.
Im sorry for your loss i truely am however that small heifer shouldnt have been put with that big ole bull anyways. Secondly, since when does another cow being in heat indicate the bulls tool is okay? How long ago did you turn the bull out with them? If it was a pretty long time ago then obviously his tool is not alright. Just because a cow is in heat dont mean the bull can breed her.

In my opinion the heifer weighed more that 850, but I am estimating her weight according to the hanging weight given.
I would expect her mature weight would have been 1200 or so which is what we are trying to achieve. It has been a lean year with the drought and because we were retaining her for breeding we were not fattening her. The bull calves (her brothers) being fattened from last year are easily 1000 lbs or more.

This year we have two calving seasons, we do not have a large herd (a dozen breeding stock & calves). The spring calvers have been bred, and I have noted no repeat heats. I brought a couple heifers (this was one of them) to be bred with the fall calvers...3 of the fall calvers have calved this month and that was who the bull was trying to breed yesterday.. when Sirloin said the tool was broken --I assumed litterally since I have read that you can see if there is an injury -- his tool looked to be working. Every cow/hefier he bred last year calved and most within a 30 day period, but within 60. I am observant and keep very good notes, I have so far been accurate within 10 days or so of calving.

It was just a bummer to loose a retained hefier, but at least we are getting beef...could have been worse to loose to disease or someother reason and loose everything. I figured that some would think the bull to big.
Donna

Edited in bold...I was typing at lunch break and in a hurry and didn't proof it good![/b]