Longhorn Fellas

[TxStateCowboy]

Here's a pic of my uncle's old bull 'Yates 004' he let me use for a while. What do you think?

 

[Proverbs 12:10]

I like his brindle look. Could use some of that color on a few of my nearly all white longhorn cows. He looks like my bull...light in the behind. What's his T2T?

 

[Pooog1]

I just have to say..I really love those horns. This is a stupid question I know, but what do you guys who raise Longhorns do when you feed hay? Do you have to modify your hayfeeders or don't you use them?

 

[TXBobcat]

This is a stupid question I know, but what do you guys who raise Longhorns do when you feed hay? Do you have to modify your hayfeeders or don't you use them?

With Longhorns it is best to use one of the horse type hay rings, roll the hay out, or just set the bale out with no ring at all.

 

[Ryan]

Good lookin bull. Like his depth, and i like the color.

We use hay rings with the diagonal bars and we cut out most of them to make the openings bigger. I really like the horse one's that TxBobcat referred to. We cant not put them in a hay ring, or they cows (more than the bull) will spread it all around before they get to eating it.

 

[Rustler9]

Not a bad looking bull. Is he straight Yates breeding? What's his pedigree.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Great brindle color! Little light in hip (Butler genetics there?).

Hay rings:

We use and prefer the "Applegate Steel's Tombstone" horse type feeders. Other horse type feeders will get damaged by mature bulls. We do use some of the lighter weight horse type feeders for calves and open yearling heifers (only because we couldn't find/buy more of the better feeders at the time).

LH Bulls tend to "attack" a new round bale in a feeder with their horns and dig inside the bale to get the "good stuff". After they dig out about 10% of it and toss on ground, they tend to settle down. With longhorns, a "commercial cattle feeder" would not work--too flimsy and horns could get stuck in framework. Spreading round bale out without a feeder is asking for a lot of waste. We've even had a bull lift off a 200-300# feeder when hay gets low so he can access more of hay.

 

[TxStateCowboy]

Not a bad looking bull. Is he straight Yates breeding? What's his pedigree.

he's "old school" straight yates, from Yates' own herd. My uncle's a close friend of Fayette Yates and those who keep WR/Yates/Peeler/Marks bloodlines alive and pure.

This bull is Yates 004, son of "Yates Bravo" sire and a "Yates Texas Longhorn" dam.

These bloodlines are my favorite, not for their horn TTT, rear end, or color, but for their conformity to the real longhorn phenotype, their length, and extreme hardiness and longevity. Many of the Yates cows my father bought in the 80's are still alive and calving on our ranch just south of LaPryor.

 

[Rustler9]

I like those old blood lines. I noticed that you are talking about keeping those lines pure but you probably know that none of those lines are straight breeding. All of those families that you listed have had infusions of other lines. Some folks still believe that WR breeding is the purest but even they have had other bulls brought in to prevent such close inbreeding.

The WR herd used Bold Ruler (Butler) plus Peeler bulls from time to time. Maudeen Marks had to basically start over with other lines when she took over her ranch so her cattle wouldn't be the original Marks blood lines. I believe Yates also had other blood line infusions as well.

 

[TxStateCowboy]

Yep, yates used some Marks, Peeler, and many WR cattle in his herd. I didn't mean pure within their own herd, but in a sense that they had a phenotype in mind and wanted to keep it that way. I meant they, especially Yates, were very consistent in keeping other breeds away from their longhorn herds.

 

[TXBobcat]

Some folks still believe that WR breeding is the purest but even they have had other bulls brought in to prevent such close inbreeding.

Speaking of pure bloodlines, I have often wondered if the Longhorns registered in the TLBA/ITLA etc, are actually pure. And for that matter, what really makes a pure Longhorn? I know the CTLA (Cattlemen's Texas Longhorn Registry) requires blood typying, but the other 2 main associations do not. Could there have been some other breed influences mixed in, back down the line, on some of the registered Longhorns we are seeing today?

 

[Rustler9]

The Longhorn breed as it is known today is approximately 80% Spanish and 20% British. The wild horned cattle that roamed the south eastern part of the United States for 400-500 years descended from cattle brought from Spain and then had infusions of Durham (Shorthorn) and Hereford cattle which were brought over by colonists to improve or upgrade these horned cattle.

Of course there were Brahmans that were brought in later and crossed with some of the Longhorned cattle. All Brahman influenced cattle were supposedly culled from the Longhorn breed but I tend to think that some of the cattle I see today have some Brahman from way back when. I particularly see alot of Peeler and Phillips type cattle that show a little of their Brahman roots. I like these two lines of cattle because they are usually a larger framed cow and they milk well. Both Peeler and Phillips raised these cattle for the beef markets so they weren't as careful about keeping outside blood from coming in. Now I'm not saying that these guys tried to slip Brahman or other blood in, I just feel that it happened from time to time. It's been said that Texas Ranger JP was 1/4 Brahman or 1/4 Hereford. I would tend to think that he probably did have a little Brahman blood in him although I really like him. I've noticed that on alot of Ranger blooded cattle that they'll have a little more leather than some of the other lines and of course they are larger framed.

 

[TxStateCowboy]

Some folks still believe that WR breeding is the purest but even they have had other bulls brought in to prevent such close inbreeding.

Speaking of pure bloodlines, I have often wondered if the Longhorns registered in the TLBA/ITLA etc, are actually pure. And for that matter, what really makes a pure Longhorn? I know the CTLA (Cattlemen's Texas Longhorn Registry) requires blood typying, but the other 2 main associations do not. Could there have been some other breed influences mixed in, back down the line, on some of the registered Longhorns we are seeing today?

TXBobcat
That is exactly what I have been talking about over this last month... I beleive Watusi blood is very apparent in many TLBAA/ITLA longhorns, maybe not direct crosses, but diluted. Think about it as a breeder who knows that Horn size will win awards and bring more money- what breed has the largest horns? How can I sneak that into my breeding?

Its pretty easy, if i want to tout my black bloodlines, I can register my 3/4 angus 1/4 longhorn ONLINE at the TLBAA if i give them some numbers and letters. Like i've said before, check out their magazine and tell me that every animal shown looks like a longhorn... some look like mutants to me.

To answer your question yes it is possible others have mixed into the registered breeding, and its highly likely and apparent.

 

[TXBobcat]

Thanks for your input, and for the most part, I do agree with what ya'll are saying.

 

[Rustler9]

UC Davis says that all Longhorns have other breed markers in them. This stems back to when they were range cattle and were more a type of cattle than a recognized breed. These markers will show up but will be far back not a recent addition. Now as far as some having Watusi in them that may be true. I know they've been crossed before but I don't recall seeing any registered Longhorn cattle that looked Watusi to me. As far as some of the show cattle, I do see some that look more like a Longhorn composite than a true Longhorn. I know of an instance where a particular bull was blood typed and it showed that he had Limousine blood. Now, Limousine cattle weren't imported into the U.S. until the 1970's so it would appear that someone wanted to boost their size so conveniently let the big bull in with the Longhorn cow?? I most definitely would not let any of my cattle near a bull like that. I do resent that you seem to think or at least imply that all ITLA and or TLBBA cattle are crossbreds. This is very far from the truth.

 

[Ryan]

UC Davis says that all Longhorns have other breed markers in them. This stems back to when they were range cattle and were more a type of cattle than a recognized breed.

Thank you Rustler9. You are RIGHT ON. When they were range cattle and even before there was a registry, the cattle were more of a type than a breed. During times like that it is nearly impossible for that type to breed to only that type. Plus, Texas Longhorns did not descend from one single breed, like say angus or hereford. That is what made longhorns what they are.... they took traits that made them adaptable and strong and kept on goin.

I do resent that you seem to think or at least imply that all ITLA and or TLBBA cattle are crossbreds. This is very far from the truth.

THANK YOU again!! It seems that although he will through the occasional good comment out there, TxStateCowboy usually says something in regards to longhorns not in the CTLR as being crossbred, and that if they are what many call "improved" then they are crossbred. Its like he completely disregards the notion that breeders could have worked hard for decades striving for better animals. We've been down this road with him before. I will say from my personal perspective that the bull pictured above is far better than the other young bull he posts pictures of.

Ryan

 

[Proverbs 12:10]

I'm glad someone brought up what I have wondered about ever since I began breeding longhorns and would drive by a Watusi ranch everyday. With the $ bills wrapped around horn size if I didn't care about my fellow man or the breed, I'd be tempted to experiment with a crossbreed.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Here's a pic of my uncle's old bull 'Yates 004' he let me use for a while. What do you think?

As a Beef Bull - he is a "Funnel Butt". As a LongHORN - he is STRIKING!

DOC HARRIS

 

[TxStateCowboy]

UC Davis says that all Longhorns have other breed markers in them. This stems back to when they were range cattle and were more a type of cattle than a recognized breed.

Thank you Rustler9. You are RIGHT ON. When they were range cattle and even before there was a registry, the cattle were more of a type than a breed. During times like that it is nearly impossible for that type to breed to only that type. Plus, Texas Longhorns did not descend from one single breed, like say angus or hereford. That is what made longhorns what they are.... they took traits that made them adaptable and strong and kept on goin.

I do resent that you seem to think or at least imply that all ITLA and or TLBBA cattle are crossbreds. This is very far from the truth.

THANK YOU again!! It seems that although he will through the occasional good comment out there, TxStateCowboy usually says something in regards to longhorns not in the CTLR as being crossbred, and that if they are what many call "improved" then they are crossbred. Its like he completely disregards the notion that breeders could have worked hard for decades striving for better animals. We've been down this road with him before. I will say from my personal perspective that the bull pictured above is far better than the other young bull he posts pictures of.

Ryan

I don't appreciate what you've said. I do not believe ALL ITLA/TLBAA longhorns are crosses or show other breeds, I implied that many do, and I believe that very much, limousin, watusi, brahma(makes interesting crosses as well), have been infused to some greedy breeders' herds- these are who I have a problem with.

That old bull is from a CTLR, "pure phenotype", or as you may call it, "not improved" herd, my other young bull is from a TLBAA breeders herd. This one (pictured above) is much much better. I'm trying to head towards the long hardy longhorns with twisty horns, as I believe the old folks who thought these were best were right, they seem to have the best survival, adaption, and other longhorn qualities we always tout as longhorn breeders.

 

[Ryan]

I don't appreciate what you've said.

okay. i stated what i thought. those are just my opinions based on what you have posted.

I believe that very much, limousin, watusi, brahma(makes interesting crosses as well), have been infused to some greedy breeders' herds

okay. these are your opinions. many times you state these opinions as if they are a known fact. since you have no actual proof these will remain opinions, or theories, until proven other wise. If you had any proof of certain breeders crossbreeding or certain animals being crossbred (like Rustler9's example) then that would be one thing, but declaring an animal is something based off your view of a picture is nothing.

I'm trying to head towards the long hardy longhorns with twisty horns, as I believe the old folks who thought these were best were right, they seem to have the best survival, adaption, and other longhorn qualities we always tout as longhorn breeders.

Thats Fantastic. Good for you, seriously. That is what makes longhorns great. Anyone can strive to make their cattle to be what they want. You want longer, twisty horns. I honestly hope you achieve your goals with your herd, if they make you happy then you have succeeded. We have differing ideas on which direction our own individual herds should be heading, thats life, and there is no problem with that.

Ryan