line breeding and inbreeding

[brierpatch1974]

I must admit this is somthing that confuses me. Whats the differance? Also is it best to breed father to daughter or brother to sister? Obviously people breed father to daughter when they keep the same bull and use offspring as replacements. How many generations is this safe to do? Someone please set me straight on this so I can figure it out.

BP

 

[SaskHerf]

Well, i was up to a neighbors place and as he said it.... If it has one head it is linebred, if it has two heads its inbred.. :lol:

But on a serious note... One article i read talked about line breeding and the goal was to keep the influence from any one animal at 50% or less, so like you said it is better to breed brother and sister=50% than father to daughter=75%. Hope that helps a little

 

[Pooog1]

I think that you will soon hear that everyone will have a different opinion. I have heard some people say that it's line breeding if you breed closely and it works and its inbreeding if it doesn't work!

Really you will see allot of mated pairs that were sired by the same sire (1/2 brother and sister) I wouldn't really recommend breeding father to daughter and vise versa but I have seen it done quite successfully. This kind of mating will increase your homozygous genes in the resulting offspring and will give you a more uniform animal. If this is done properly it can be quite good but again if your animal has a recessive trait that you wouldn't want to come out, it more than likely will as you are breeding two animals that may carry this to a more certain extent.

Like I said everyone will have an opinion on this and they will vary. I once knew a breeder that was trying to get a full mate to a bull of his by breeding his daughters back to him and on and on. I never did hear how this turned out but I know that he doesn't raise that breed anymore. I always forgot to ask if it was successful. Good luck with what you're doing.

 

[rattler]

We always used brother to sister never father to daughter.
rattler

 

[jnowack]

Linebreeding and inbreeding are the same thing. The problem you run into is if there are any genetic defects. If a bull is a carrier of some genetic defect (recessive gene) and you breed him back to his daughters (some of which also carry the recessive gene) then you can have problems.

 

[brierpatch1974]

hehe sounds like a lot of hit and miss. Try it out and pray you get lucky. I don't think I have to worry about it since I have a small herd and just doing AI breeding anyways but was curious about it.

BP

 

[Muratic]

I must admit this is somthing that confuses me. Whats the differance? Also is it best to breed father to daughter or brother to sister

Come on BP...you are in west virginia. YOU should be telling us the difference. :lol2: :lol2:

 

[MikeC]

I must admit this is somthing that confuses me. Whats the differance? Also is it best to breed father to daughter or brother to sister

Come on BP...you are in west virginia. YOU should be telling us the difference. :lol2: :lol2:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[brierpatch1974]

Come on BP...you are in west virginia

lol now i get it lol ... sad thing is I really know of a few cases of that


BP

 

[msscamp]

I must admit this is somthing that confuses me. Whats the differance?

The biggest difference is whether it works (linebreeding) or not (inbreeding).

Obviously people breed father to daughter when they keep the same bull and use offspring as replacements.

I can't speak for others, but our heifer calves are NOT bred back to their father. They are sorted off and pastured in a different pasture with an unrelated bull.


BP

 

[Aero]

the difference is simple.

linebreeding is when a breeder intentionally puts 2 animals together to add more influence of one or more animals in the pedigree of the 2 being mated.

inbreeding is when 2 animals that are related produce offspring with no regard for what animals are actually in the pedigrees. this can be by accident or just because you only have one bull and wont buy another.

 

[Aero]

How many generations is this safe to do? Someone please set me straight on this so I can figure it out.

BP

this is strictly determined by the bull.

if he doesnt have the best breeding and has some ugly stuff hidden in the recessives, you will not be able to use him very long and the first cross on his daughters could yield some very ugly stuff.

if you got lucky and he doesnt have too much bad stuff hidden, you could use him for generations.

the reason people are scared of linebreeding is because many animals arent very homozygous. with heterozygous animals, there is twice the likelihood of a recessive showing up down the road.

if a bull is the product of a real linebreeding program, you will more than likely be able to use the bull for a good while.

as in anything, somewhere in the middle is probably going to work out better for everyone.

 

[KNERSIE]

To answer your question about how many generations is safe to use the same bull....

The natural percentage of blood from each parent in the resulting offspring is 50%. You for example, carry half the genetic influence from your father and half the genetic influence from your mother. In other words you have 50%of your father's blood (don't know why they use the term blood, but it is widely used that way). When it comes to breeding cattle it is generally accepted that if you do not exceed this 50% guideline you should be OK.

Just bear in mind that the whole idea of linebreeding is to create homoygous strains of cattle, in other words through selective linebreeding and VERY STRICT selection. Culling everything that shows any flaws doesn't matter how minor. This way all the faults that might be hidden because they were carried by a recessive gene will be exposed in subsequent generations. If you culling stategy was in place you will end up (hopefully) with a pure strain homozygous cattle without any hidden flaws that might be hided by recessive genes. Of course you can use the same method to fix any other wanted trait in your herd as well.

The flaws that are likely to show up through intensive linebreeding are overshot/undershot jaws, sickle hocks, straight hocks, etc. Just your normal cull faults. You definatly will not get two headed calves or calves with eight eyes or whatever horror stories you might have heard.

what I forgot to mention was you need to linebreed to a superior animal (usually a bull) that already possesses the qualities you're after. You can concentrate gene pairs this way, but you can not create new ones.

Jim Lents wrote a book called "The Basis of LInebreeding" that can shed light on any otehr questions you might have in applying this technique in practice.

Hope this rather lengthy explanation helped at all, if you would like me to clear anything else up please ask.