LimFlex vs Hereford

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gaurus

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I’ve been looking at some of the Limflex bulls posted here and they look very good, but I wonder what benefits would a Limflex bull bring to when used on a herd of Angus cows? The resulting cross will be around 88% Angus, but when the same cows are crossed to Hereford bull the result are black baldies that are well paid and grow faster healthier than any of their parents and grade very well too...


Just wondering... :cowboy:
 

Rafter S

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gaurus":1pqpcs4o said:
I’ve been looking at some of the Limflex bulls posted here and they look very good, but I wonder what benefits would a Limflex bull bring to when used on a herd of Angus cows? The resulting cross will be around 88% Angus, but when the same cows are crossed to Hereford bull the result are black baldies that are well paid and grow faster healthier than any of their parents and grade very well too...


Just wondering... :cowboy:

It sounds to me like you’ve got your mind made up (and I agree with you).
 

MRRherefords

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IMO (although it may be biased because my family has been raising Herefords for 4-5 generations) the calving ease and growth rate of using a Hereford bull is much better. We have had a number of black baldies and they grow better than any other commercial cows around. They also sell pretty good. :cboy:
 

elkwc

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gaurus":24nvvqv3 said:
I’ve been looking at some of the Limflex bulls posted here and they look very good, but I wonder what benefits would a Limflex bull bring to when used on a herd of Angus cows? The resulting cross will be around 88% Angus, but when the same cows are crossed to Hereford bull the result are black baldies that are well paid and grow faster healthier than any of their parents and grade very well too...


Just wondering... :cowboy:

The ultimate cross is a black baldie (HerefordxAngus). That view is shared by breeders, feeders and buyers.
 

Boot Jack Bulls

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We use far more pure bred Limi and Angus (red & black) over LimFlex females than the other way around. My brother has built up a nice herd over the last 10 years of these Limflex females, and now uses the Limi and Angus bulls back over them, depending on what influence he thinks would work best on each cow. The resulting calves have been awesome and the Limflex are proving to be valuable cows. I do keep some Limflex bulls because certain customers of mine prefer them to a straight bred, but for our own females, I like a purebred. I think if your region likes the black baldy, the herf bull is definitely the way to go.
 

KNERSIE

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cow pollinater":3gpf2h4m said:
Make the baldies first then switch to a limousin or high percentage limflex with two copies of the muscle gene.
That's the way to do it.

Always better to use pure bulls and planned crossbred cows.
 
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gaurus

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WalnutCrest":303petor said:
cow pollinater":303petor said:
Make the baldies first then switch to a limousin or high percentage limflex with two copies of the muscle gene.

Muscle gene? Do you mean the F94L myostatin mutation?
I was thinking that too, I didn't know Limousins had the double muscle gene..
 

WalnutCrest

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gaurus":2q4z8guo said:
WalnutCrest":2q4z8guo said:
cow pollinater":2q4z8guo said:
Make the baldies first then switch to a limousin or high percentage limflex with two copies of the muscle gene.

Muscle gene? Do you mean the F94L myostatin mutation?
I was thinking that too, I didn't know Limousins had the double muscle gene..

There is no such thing as THE double muscle gene.

There are at least nine widely researched mutations in the myostatin area.

Some negatively affect calving ability as the mutations start to express themselves before birth. These types of mutations are referred to as being disruptive variants (because they can disrupt calving ease). There are at least six of these types. When people think about "double muscling" they often associate it with calving difficulties.

There are three variants that do not express until after the calf is born. There are at least three of these missence variants that do not affect calving ease. One of these three missence variants is the F94L variation. This variant is somewhat common in fullblood Limousin and Aubrac cattle.

Further, some variants in myostatin result in the same number of muscle fibers as a normal animal, just those fibers are much thicker (and therefore are tougher meat as the thicker muscle fibers are harder to cut) ... and ... there are others that result in more muscle fibers that are longer and thinner (and therefore result in more tender beef).

The variant common in Piedmontese cattle (C313Y) results in an expression that happens before birth (and therefore can negatively affect calving) but results in long thin muscle fibers (and therefore tender beef).

The F94L variant also results in long thin muscle fibers (similar to Piedmontese cattle), but doesn't affect calving ease the same way as it doesn't express until after birth.

There are other variants (including nt821 and Q204X among others) that show up in some breeds but not others. Let Google be your guide...
 

cow pollinater

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There is no such thing as THE double muscle gene.
Since he's asking about limousins I think we can focus on THE muscle gene they carry as it's the only one he needs to think about if he's crossbreeding with limousins.

One of these three missence variants is the F94L variation. This variant is somewhat common in fullblood Limousin and Aubrac cattle.
Wrong. It is VERY common in fullblood Limousins. As in 98% of them are homozygous. Around 60% of purebreds in the US are homozygous and the majority of the rest carry one copy. Limflex is kind of a crap shoot. There are a few that are homozygous.
 

WalnutCrest

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cow pollinater":clmw5smw said:
There is no such thing as THE double muscle gene.
Since he's asking about limousins I think we can focus on THE muscle gene they carry as it's the only one he needs to think about if he's crossbreeding with limousins.

I know that some breeds have evidence of multiple variations that show up in their population (including red angus, I believe); I was going from memory and didn't want to assume that Limousins only had one variant in their herdbook. Thanks for the correction.

cow pollinater":clmw5smw said:
One of these three missence variants is the F94L variation. This variant is somewhat common in fullblood Limousin and Aubrac cattle.
Wrong. It is VERY common in fullblood Limousins. As in 98% of them are homozygous. Around 60% of purebreds in the US are homozygous and the majority of the rest carry one copy. Limflex is kind of a crap shoot. There are a few that are homozygous.

As I said above, I stand corrected re: Limousin cattle. It's similarly frequent in Aubrac cattle (the F94L is at an 88.5% frequency in the fullblood Aubrac bulls I've had tested with 80.8% of the bulls being homozygous (only one bull I tested had zero copies of F94L).

And yes, LimFlex are a bit of a crap shoot regarding the incidents of the F94L mutation ... especially when Limousin is only 25% (as half of them should be homozygous without F94L and half heterozygous). With true F1s, these bulls should be heterozygous for F94L. With 75% Limousin half should be heterozygous and half should be homozygous for F94L.
 

OzssieDave19

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Great Scott!!!! I thought the question was hereford or limousin.

I would give the cross ago. Limo cross grow out well and calve well.
 

Stocker Steve

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Limi will give you more growth and muscle. Heifers will become big cows with later maturity.
Hereford will give you more fertility and maternal qualities. Heifers will become cows with stay ability.
 

elkwc

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I've seen just as much growth from Herefords and Angus as I have anything else. And the Black Baldie has always been the heaviest for us. In my opinion the breed isn't as important as the bloodline selection. I weaned a straight Angus calf at 8 months that weighed 1000 lb even. His half brother just topped a feed efficiency test with several breeds in it. The breed alone in my opinion doesn't guarantee better performance. Pedigree is way more accurate.
 

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