Let's see if I have this right

[dun]

Angus got larger framed because of the CHI influence, or Holstein, because when the larger framed Angus started to show up Chis or their semen weren;t even being imported.
Herefords developed the goggle eye from Simmenthal.
But the continental breeds got smaller framed, easier calving and better marbeling characteristics from just good old selective breeding. Pretty obvious that those early continental breeders were much better cattle people then the british breeders.

dun

 

[southpaw]

Amen!

dun, totally hypothetical would you be in favor of a merger between red and black angus assoc. I ask in most other parts of the world they only have one assoc. for both reds and blacks!

 

[southpaw]

Or they slicker at deceiving the commercial cattleman!

 

[dun]

Amen!

dun, totally hypothetical would you be in favor of a merger between red and black angus assoc. I ask in most other parts of the world they only have one assoc. for both reds and blacks!

I like it the way it is. Other then in marketing, I think the Red Angus Association has it all over the other colored Angus association.

dun

 

[southpaw]

You have a valid point I wish there was some way to get some red genetics into my blacks but still have them registered.

 

[Susie David]

Think that I'll have a seat on the fence and watch this rodeo, maybe I'll get a new perspective.
Dave Mc

 

[jscunn]

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Very nice Dun.

 

[cypressfarms]

Pretty obvious that those early continental breeders were much better cattle people then the british breeders.

dun

Dun, I would guess that you're not only saying the above with tongue in cheek, but without the tongue!

You'd swear that people were cussing when they bring up the "A" word (angus). These days with the advanced science, EPD's and AI, Embryo transfer etc., the advantage of hybrid vigor is being challenged, IMO. You can literally pick a Angus bull, by evaluating his numbers, that will throw bigger calves (and better) than a charolais. People didn't think that could be done years ago. So many options out there, there is not an excuse for anyone not to be improving their herd. As a matter of fact those who aren't are losing money (opportunity lost/cost).

Dun, I really like the goggle eye hereford example.

 

[Aero]

i am learning that heterosis is usually devalued by those who misunderstand it.

i learned a bit from this post (and many more) http://5barx.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=320#320

 

[Brandonm2]

Angus got larger framed because of the CHI influence, or Holstein, because when the larger framed Angus started to show up Chis or their semen weren;t even being imported.
Herefords developed the goggle eye from Simmenthal.
But the continental breeds got smaller framed, easier calving and better marbeling characteristics from just good old selective breeding. Pretty obvious that those early continental breeders were much better cattle people then the british breeders.

dun

Holsteins were certainly around when Angus started to get bigger (and much more functional Holsteins than some we see today). I do think that Simmental had a role in creating the goggle eyed Hereford bulls. See example..
http://www.strangherefords.com/hereford ... P-135A.jpg
I also think black Sims (like Jean's Macho)
http://onlinebullstud.com/Simmental/SIM ... MACHO.html
have some Angus in their lineage. In most American Sim, Gelbvieh, Limi, and Maine
http://onlinebullstud.com/Maine/RSCC%20 ... 0205N.html
pedigrees they do not hide the fact that an Angus or a "commercial cow" is back there somewhere if you bother to look him up. In fact some of those breeds officially define "purebred" as
~15/16s.

 

[Three T]

Dun,
Good post! When Belt Buckle cattle were dominating the show ring Grampa went west and bought bulls. There were many ranches out west and in Canada that never got into the fad of the day. The holstein cross cracks me up everytime somebody post it.

 

[la4angus]

Dun,
Good post! When Belt Buckle cattle were dominating the show ring Grampa went west and bought bulls. There were many ranches out west and in Canada that never got into the fad of the day. The holstein cross cracks me up everytime somebody post it.

The holstein cross is the biggest joke around.People in these days don't realize that there were herds in Ok., Ks. some of the western states and Canada that had big frame cattle when they weren't popular at all. The only ones buying their bulls were commercial ranchers that made their living off the cattle.

 

[Jake]

How about this to chew on, one of the first bulls in the registery DEFYS THE WHITE GUIDELINES. This was the natural look of angus from the beginning. The white also isn't from holstein.

 

[Beefy]

Jake, i think thats a drawing. whats up with that critters head?

 

[Jake]

it's a drawing but in the 1800s they weren't going to take an actual picture. Your not even going to try to tell me that they would lie about there being white on that bull so that later on we could rebutt the accusations of holsteins...

 

[Beefy]

whered he get that floppy dewlap?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

HaHa Dun - cute! Anyway, I referred to Angus getting really tall in the 70's when Chi's WERE popular.
As pointed out, the difference is - if you DNA test a Purebred Simmental (or other continental) and get a % of other breed - no big deal, that is a known fact. They are American Purebreds - upgraded and made in America.
Just like Brangus - an upgraded American breed.
I have NEVER claimed my herd was "Fullblood" - they are Purebreds.
The FULLBLOOD Simmental cattle that were getting imported at one point had less % Simm than some of the American made PB, so the ASA made a 5 generation rule to be considered FULLBLOOD, whether imported or raised in Amer.

Couldn't stand it - got curious & looked up Macho's lineage.
On the top side, he goes back 5 generations of PB til back in 73, a dam was 1/4 Angus.
On the bottom side, his dam's top side goes back 5 generations to Abricot (Fullblood) and on her bottom side, goes back to 1984 1/2 angus.
There could be some closer, but got tired of following dam's dam's dam, etc.
Did find 3/8 Horned Hereford back in the 80's. Found bulls like Signal (several times) Lacholm Achillles, Mr Clean - all fullbloods of course.

 

[dun]

I've got a 1B Red Angus that has Abricot and Signal in her lineage, way back. Funny that she's only about a FS 4.5. I never saw Abricot in the flesh, but Signal was one BIG mean SOB

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

But Signal made some of the best cows around. Actually, Achilles was the bull I remembered to be REALLY bad disposition - really passed it on to his daughters - would eat you alive! Had one we called Yellow Little Bag (nickname). We calve everything in a pen - we would have to rope her calf & drag it under the gates to tag, vaccinate at birth. In the field she was fine - just didn't want her calf bawling near you. She had "no flight zone" so her calves never "learned" her bad attitude or were afraid of us. But, her calves would be the ones tugging on your sleeve. When you looked down & saw who it was, my heart would sink to my stomach. Another COW wouldn't even walk in front of her - real BOSS cow. Long gone at age of 15 I think. Still have some offspring in the herd.

 

[Jake]

whered he get that floppy dewlap?

beefy, that's what angus looked like. your not going to be able to convince me that they lied when drawing the bull to help us 110 years later. Some parts of him are probably exagerated but I'd all but guarantee you the white on him isn't.