Leaving replacement heifers on Dam through first winter

[goddy]

Have read a couple of articles recently about leaving replacement heifers on their dams through their first winter. Haven't tried but I am intrigued by the idea. Has anyone here done this ? Pros and cons ?
cheers Goddy

 

[dun]

What is supposedly the point?

 

[LRTX1]

Is it the thought that the heifers would receive extra nutrition through the winter if still nursing. Think it would benefit the heifer but hurt the cow.

 

[TexasBred]

Is it the thought that the heifers would receive extra nutrition through the winter if still nursing. Think it would benefit the heifer but hurt the cow.

Agree

 

[dun]

Is it the thought that the heifers would receive extra nutrition through the winter if still nursing. Think it would benefit the heifer but hurt the cow.

That was my htought, plus could affect the next calf if the cow isn;t dry long enough to generte colostrum.

 

[Alan]

What's the chances of having a "cow" nursing off a cow with a new calf?

 

[Nesikep]

Alan, I've seen that! but not here!

I sometimes give my replacement heifers an extra month of milk or so, as long as the cows are out grazing, and wean them when I start to feed hay. That still gives the cows about 2 1/2 months minimum of time off. I'm thinking of weaning early this year to help keep some late pasture going though.

 

[AllForage]

I calve may/June and leave all the calves on the cow 8-10 months. Been doing it this for over 10 years. Of course I'm working with a different type than most here.

 

[goddy]

What is supposedly the point?

According to one article - no weaning stress , this person felt they had an easier time through the winter plus they learn to be "good citizens" with the cow herd and one less group to feed/manage though the snow times. Not sure if the reasons are enough to try it but never hurts to think about something different.

 

[Nesikep]

The problem I see with it is that you have to feed the cows far more food because they're milking, plus the calves don't get as much because they're around the cows. I would rather put the calves in a separate group, feed them the best hay I have, and the cows won't need to eat as much. It doesn't make sense to feed 100% of your cows 'milking ration' to reduce a management group for the 15 or 20% replacement heifers that's with them. I guess it would depend on the climate too, the southerners may do just fine with it, but in cold areas I don't think it's going to pan out

 

[AllForage]

The problem I see with it is that you have to feed the cows far more food because they're milking, plus the calves don't get as much because they're around the cows. I would rather put the calves in a separate group, feed them the best hay I have, and the cows won't need to eat as much. It doesn't make sense to feed 100% of your cows 'milking ration' to reduce a management group for the 15 or 20% replacement heifers that's with them. I guess it would depend on the climate too, the southerners may do just fine with it, but in cold areas I don't think it's going to pan out

I'm not advocating it just sayin nothing disastrous will happen if you have very easy fleshing cows with moderate milk. For those with minimal facilities that want to keep calves past yearling it works. I don't really think my cows are eating that much more cause the calves maybe get a couple pounds towards the end. It can be like nutritional insurance though. I put out twice as many hay rings than most so calves are not competing.

Now this is not a good idea for wild type cows. They just imprint their calves with their attitude even more.

 

[Stocker Steve]

What is supposedly the point?

$$$

+ Fewer groups for you to manage
+ Less heifer stress
+ Reduce or eliminate feeding supplements
+ Reduce cost of heifer hay
+ Gives you a better idea of the maternal quality from the dam

- Should not winter the bull with the cows
- May need more room at the hay ring

 

[Taurus]

What is supposedly the point?

$$$

+ Fewer groups for you to manage
+ Less heifer stress
+ Reduce or eliminate feeding supplements
+ Reduce cost of heifer hay
+ Gives you a better idea of the maternal quality from the dam

- Should not winter the bull with the cows
- May need more room at the hay ring

And probably more future headaches if the calves are not fully weaned or the cows are in poor condition that they might have problems with their new calves or worse.....cows abandoning their new calves for the older calf. If you don't have any space to separated older calves from cows to wean them then how are you gonna keep them get off the cows when the calving season is coming up? Not mentioned that our Minnesotan winters got longer last year and two years ago. It's possible that snow won't melt till late April.

 

[goddy]

What is supposedly the point?

$$$

+ Fewer groups for you to manage
+ Less heifer stress
+ Reduce or eliminate feeding supplements
+ Reduce cost of heifer hay
+ Gives you a better idea of the maternal quality from the dam

- Should not winter the bull with the cows
- May need more room at the hay ring

And probably more future headaches if the calves are not fully weaned or the cows are in poor condition that they might have problems with their new calves or worse.....cows abandoning their new calves for the older calf. If you don't have any space to separated older calves from cows to wean them then how are you gonna keep them get off the cows when the calving season is coming up? Not mentioned that our Minnesotan winters got longer last year and two years ago.

I don't think "never weaning" was mentioned - just leaving them on Mum through the winter. Don't think lack of space was mentioned either.

 

[Taurus]

And probably more future headaches if the calves are not fully weaned or the cows are in poor condition that they might have problems with their new calves or worse.....cows abandoning their new calves for the older calf. If you don't have any space to separated older calves from cows to wean them then how are you gonna keep them get off the cows when the calving season is coming up? Not mentioned that our Minnesotan winters got longer last year and two years ago.

I don't think "never weaning" was mentioned - just leaving them on Mum through the winter. Don't think lack of space was mentioned either.

Problem is that majority of us are calving on the beginning of March.

 

[Lucky_P]

Peak milk production in beef cows is at about 60-80 days, tapering off gradually from that point. After 4-5 months, the calf isn't really getting all THAT much from the cow. But, they'll take all they can get.
I've left heifers from the Fall-calving herd on the cows a month or two longer in the spring, weaning them later than the steers, but still have to pull them in when the bull goes out to breed the Spring-calving cows. Spring-born heifers are weaned with their steer mates, and kept in a separate paddock from the bull.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The key point by fans is that a couple cups of milk per day allows the calves to winter successfully on cow hay. Not sure if they have any data on this ration. I have tried it for several years and it works well with almost all of my MN cows. The heifer calves do look a little rough by spring, but they are fleshy by breeding time.

I had 2 cows out of 79 that looked like a problem with this approach, but a trailer fixed them. :cowboy: I think they had some Simi in the wood pile. Seems like grass fat English cows are ideal for this.

 

[Nesikep]

Lucky P, I also heard that a calf's ability to utilize the nutrients in the milk tapers off somewhere around 3 months as well, is this true?

I think it can be used as an excuse to keep lesser quality heifers and still get them up to breeding weight in time. My cows are pretty productive for the most part, and I won't keep a replacement heifer if she's less that 600 lbs at weaning, given good hay I've never had any issues with them. In fact, I'm tempted to try weaning earlier, so the calves can spend a couple weeks in the corral, and then still be put on another pasture with a "babysitter" or two so that the weaning stress doesn't coincide with winter weather.

I wish had good numbers to work with so i could really pencil it out, if feeding more and better hay to your cows for the sake of a few heifer calves would be better than feeding a rich diet to them, and being able to reduce the cows diet. From my experience, I try to get my heifers to eat about 20 lbs of hay a day when it's cold, but I think it's usually around 15 lbs, the dry cows eat about double that but of lesser quality hay (usually oat/barley/alfalfa) until at least the end of january.

 

[Lucky_P]

Nesi,
Believe that's a claim with no scientific basis behind it. No reason that I can think of that they'd 'lose' the ability to utilize the protein/fat/minerals, etc. in milk, just because they hit 3 months of age.
It's a certainty that some breeds - and individual cows - produce more milk, for longer periods, but on average, after about 4-5 months, the dam is more of a companion, comforter, and teacher, than an all-important source of nourishment.

 

[jerry27150]

calf left on cow through the winter will normally not get sick & cow will dry up on hay anyway